It appears to me that Driscoll exhibits many of these manipulation and control characteristics in his words and behaviors (see list below). If this is, as CD Host claims in the comments under
14. Cult-Like Spiritual Abuse Issues & By Laws In a Nutshell
merely a reflection of Driscoll’s Reformed Theology and that all my issues with Driscoll amount to my issues with Reformed Theology (didn’t know I had the latter), then one can expect to receive much, if not all, of the abuse described in this blog as well as in the following list of manipulative tactics from those who are reformed theologians, pastors, believers… That is not my opinion, that is reflecting CD Host’s opinion (so please respond to him on that, not me). Not only that, but everything in this blog as to what I consider the abusive nature of Driscoll’s words and behavior can be attributed to his reformed theology, and hence, according to CD Host, of reformed believers, pastors, churches. I can imagine that many of you would highly disagree with those conclusions… but then again, for those of you who have found yourself in a legalistic setting which happened to be a group of reformers, one might heartily agree with CD Host.
Regardless, you might want to take this list with you–and others provided in this blog regarding traits of abusive churches and pastors and symptoms of spiritual abuse– and compare these with what you see and hear as you read Driscoll’s books, read my posts, watch his podcasts, and listen to people who have fallen out of his good graces (that is, DISSENTERS who–gasp–dared to have their own opinions, dared to question him,–which is a sin according to MD– and dared to disagree on any of his Bible interpretations).
(And, by the way, I’d summarized this prior to my knowledge about Driscoll–so I was not writing this “to him” or even with him in mind. Rather, I was thinking of those who exploit, abuse, manipulate and control in general).
Tactics of Manipulation & Control
From Simon’s Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing
As Summarized by Freedom
Minimizing: Turning mountains into molehills (the character disordered and/or perpetrators do this; neurotics do the opposite). He trivializes the nature of his wrong doing. He tries to convince you that you would be wrong to conclude that his behavior is as wrong as he knows you suspect.
Lying: Omission, distortion. Your abuser/manipulator will stop at nothing to get what he wants; therefore, you can and should expect him to lie. They have refined lying to an art. He will withhold a significant amount of the truth from you, or distort essential elements of the truth, to keep you in the dark. He uses smooth, calculated omissions to deceive you.
Denial: “Who Me?” He poses as the humble servant. Your aggressor refuses to admit he’s done something harmful or hurtful when he clearly has. This “Who Me?” tactic invites the victim, you, to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior. It’s also a way for him to give himself permission to keep right on doing what he wants to do. He uses this maneuver to get you to back off, back down or maybe even feel guilty for insinuating he’s doing something wrong.
Selective Inattention: Refusal to pay attention to anything that might distract him from pursuing his agenda. He actively ignores your warnings, pleas or wishes and refuses to pay attention to everything or anything that might distract him from going after what he wants.
Rationalization: Excuses. Justifications. A rationalization is an excuse your aggressor/abuser makes for engaging in what he knows is an inappropriate or harmful behavior. This can be very effective, especially when he makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. If he can convince you he is justified in whatever he’s doing, then he is freer to pursue his goals without interference. He will often use shame and guilt to coerce you into buying his rationalizations / excuses / justifications.
Diversion: Distraction. Changing the subject. Dodging the issue. Throw you a curve ball. A moving target is hard to hit. When you try to pin your manipulator down or keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior you don’t like, he is expert at changing the subject, distracting, dodging and throwing curves. He utilizes this maneuver to keep the focus off his behavior, move you off track, keep you off balance and maintain his freedom to promote his self-serving hidden agenda. Confronting a manipulator is like trying to nail Jello to a wall.
Evasion: Your manipulator uses vagueness to avoid being cornered on an issue by giving rambling, irrelevant responses to a direct question. He deliberately uses vagueness to confuse you, to make you think you have an answer when you don’t. When he is not responding directly to an issue, you can safely assume he is trying to give you the slip.
Covert Intimidation: This is your abuser’s use of veiled threats to keep you, his victim, anxious, apprehensive and one down. The abuser is adept at countering arguments with such passion and intensity that he effectively throws you on the defensive. A manipulator primarily intimidates you by making veiled threats. This way he can threaten you without appearing overtly hostile and aggressive.
Guilt Tripping: “How could you think that of me??!” “How could you doubt me?!” Your manipulator keeps you self-doubting, anxious and submissive. This is one of your aggressor’s two favorite weapons, the other is shaming. Aggressive personalities know that others have very different consciences than they have. They also know that the hallmark qualities of a sound conscience are the capacities for guilt and shame. Your manipulator is skilled at using what he knows to be a greater conscientiousness in you, his victim, as a means of keeping you in that anxious, submissive state where you doubt yourself and your perceptions. All your manipulator has to do is suggest to you that you don’t care or that you’re being selfish or cruel [in finally calling them on their abuse] and you immediately start to feel bad. Whereas you can try until you’re blue in the face to get your manipulator to feel remorse for his hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility and admit wrong doing, to absolutely no avail.
Shaming: Your abuser uses subtle sarcasm and put downs as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in you. He shames you to make you feel inadequate and unworthy so you will defer to his dominant position.
Victim Stancing: He plays the victim role to gain sympathy, evoke compassion in order to get something from you. He also uses this to play a false one down position to you in order to disarm you. If your manipulator can convince you that he’s suffering, then you, being a caring, sensitive soul, will want to relieve his distress.
Vilifying the Victim: Your abuser makes it appear that he is merely responding to and defending himself against YOUR aggression, making you, the victim, feel like the villain while he masks his aggressive intent and behavior.
Servant Role: Your manipulator cloaks his self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a noble cause; he pretends to work nobly on your behalf while concealing his own desire for power and dominance. One hallmark of a covert aggressive personality is he will loudly profess his subservience while fighting for dominance.
Seduction: He charms, praises, flatters you and overtly supports you to get you to lower your defenses and surrender your trust and loyalty. Your manipulator is particularly aware that to the extent you are emotionally needy or dependent (that is, vulnerable, which everyone is to some extent), you will desire approval and reassurance and a sense of being valued and needed above anything. Appearing to be attentive to these needs can be his ticket to incredible power over you. He melts any resistance you might have to giving him your loyalty and confidence. He does this by giving you what he knows you need most. You don’t find out how important you really are to him until you turn out to be in his way.
Blame Shifting (Projecting the blame onto you): Your aggressor is always looking for ways to shift the blame for his abusive behavior away from himself. He is expert at finding scapegoats in subtle, hard to detect ways. His willingness to blame you for his abusive behavior is in itself an abusive act. At the very moment he is engaging in the use of this tactic or any other he is in the act of aggressing.
Feigning Innocence: He attempts to convince you that any harm he may have caused you was unintentional or that he really didn’t do what he’s being accused of. This makes you question your judgment and sanity and to doubt your right to call him on his abusive behavior. He adroitly uses the look of surprise or indignation, or the sudden gasp at being so accused.
Feigning Confusion: Your abuser acts like he doesn’t know what you’re talking about or is confused about the issue you’re bringing. Plays ‘dumb’ to get you to question your perceptions, sanity, etc…
Brandishing Anger: Calculated, deliberate display of anger he may or may not feel in order to intimidate, coerce and manipulate.
When somebody uses these tactics frequently, you not only know what kind of character you’re dealing with (covert aggressors, manipulators, abusers, Narcissists, Anti-Socials, Borderline Personalities, etc…) but precisely because the tactics are both tools of manipulation as well as manifestations of resistance to change, you also know that he will engage in his problematic behaviors again. You can give up your fantasy that in time he will change and things will be different. Nothing will change until he decides to stop fighting and start accepting. As long as he’s engaged in utilizing these tactics, it’s clear he doesn’t intend to change.
In Sheep’s Clothing, by George K. Simon, p. 96-112
Freedom’s NOTE: And of course, with an abuser, especially a “professional” abuser, it is never appropriate to hang around in the abusive relationship hoping he will change. The point in the paragraph above is that as long as he’s aggressing, he has no intent to change. Realizing this could prove helpful to us in letting go of more denial about the abusiveness in the relationship and any hope we may have of reconciling with the abuser and picking up where we left off: namely, being abused by him again but calling it ‘love.’
Interesting list, Freedom.
Not much to say except to ask if MD has been caught lying.
Never? Rarely? Several times? Often? From the pulpit.
I’m new to this and am still not familiar with a lot of what has gone on.
Mara,
First of all, I want to be clear, I am not saying or even implying that Driscoll has done every single thing on that list. That being said, at prayingheart.wordpress.com and other places as quoted under the By Laws fiasco here on my blog, it has been purported that Driscoll changed his “Why I Fired the Two Elders” (Petry & Meyer) story FIVE TIMES over as many months. I would say that’s pretty indicative of lying (the stories were very different each time), of covering one’s a– , CYA, or CYB if preferred.
My main point I think in sharing that list and asking people to compare it with MD is because when a person begins to see patterns of certain types of behavior in a pastor or some other person in authority and this behavior is seriously damaging many people (despite those who don’t mind being treated that way) and when these kinds of behaviors are found in one list that experts deem to be a fairly consistent description of dysfunctional manipulative, controlling tactics, denial tends to slip away and we get an “Ah ha!” experience. “I knew something was off,” or, “I felt really bad under his teaching, but I just couldn’t place it!”
Also, I think we need to be brought to a place where we quit making excuses for the “evangelical darling,” or the cute lil’ rebel, or the passionate gutsy preacher, or whatever, and call it for what it is… MD’s behaviors appear to be spiritually abusive, manipulative and controlling.
If enough people become aware, and can name what is happening in a dysfunctional system, can see it in the light of truth, rather than the manipulator’s reframing of reality, more will escape, less damage will be done, others will be warned, more people will find healing, and hopefully the manipulator/controller/abuser will be confronted and prevented from bringing more of God’s people into bondage, and will perhaps, miraculously, get some healing of his own.
It is good to have a reference because folks can discern patterns that otherwise would just confuse them.
Once you notice a pattern, though, run!
(ignore)
Since I’m mentioned this is just an email to get me subscribed to comments
My heart hurts for those entangled in the MD/MH mess. Hey MDMH… is that anything like ADHD?
JK, JK!
BTW went to praying heart then followed a link to Pheonix Preacher.
They are staunch Calvinists.
I don’t even know how to talk to Calvinists so I didn’t leave a message.
Honestly, I went looking to see if I could get any real numbers on how many walking wounded MDMH has produced. I didn’t know if the numbers are in the dozens or hundreds or tens of hundreds or what.
I know what I see. And I know better than to get tangled up in such a ministry. But I wonder what kind of help those hurt by his ministry need. I guess I should just trust that God knows where they are and can bind up their wounds.
I’m just left with the feeling that MDHD leaves multiple car accidents in the road where it has been and I wish I could offer more help, whether by giving blood, or pulling the wounded from the wreckage or whatever.
Do you have any idea, Freedom, of the numbers left bleeding and dying on the mars hill road?
If not, I understand. But gosh, this stuff is hard to read without having such a gut reaction.
I wish I knew, Mara, and I pray more find their way to healing places of worship, and if this would be helpful, that they’d find this place as well. I felt much of what you are describing when I first discovered prayingheart’s blog… I wept… It wasn’t long after that I felt the call to do something about it… I had never blogged before, let alone created a blog, but in obedience to the Lord, I took the first step, then the second, then the third. I really hope some day more ex-MHers will feel free and safe enough to share their stories here and/or to offer words of wisdom and insight (and warning) to those who just are not getting the gravity of this situation… also comfort to those who, like themselves, have been bloodied by MH.
I had received an encouraging comment from an ex-Marshillian and was really blessed by what she had to say about what I’m doing here… It’s under #33, Driscoll Rants at Abusers… Abusively.
In reply to some questions I’d asked her after her first comment, she wrote,
“How did I survive? I guess I didn’t. I like to speak my mind…and, well, I had many hush-hush conversations with other women about the fact that being a stay-at-home-mom reallllllly sucks sometimes, and that I think it’s okay for a woman to be friends with a man (those conversations were not so hush-hush), and that I think raising kids is great but there is more to life. I eventually realized I didnt want to stay in a place where I was being told to shut-up. It’s a much longer story than that, but that’s the basics.
“The good news is that I have met SOOOO many other people who are ex-Mars-Hill folks – some of them have landed in good churches that are used to helping people heal from abuse. I meet people all the time at my church who share a similar story.”
And to my inquiry as to what I might do differently here to be more effective and helpful to those wounded by MH, she wrote,
“All may not be well in Denmark but I think all is well here…I appreciate the presence of this space, and will point anyone I can here.”
As I told her, it does my heart much good to know that some or many of these recovering “train wreck” survivors, are apparently finding some good, healthy, loving churches (and yes, folks, one can still be a gospel preaching church and be loving… remember, truth AND grace?).
Yeah, I hear you.
Guess I should thank you.
I had started my blog about my journey of going from being bitter to sweet. I was aware of domestic abuse (including emotional and verbal) within Christian homes and spiritual abuse in legalistic churches.
And part of my healing (from being in a legalistic church) involved, as you know, The Song of Solomon (SOS). But I was having a hard time getting started blogging on it. I blogged all around it and made an attempt at a start but couldn’t get into it and express what I had learned the way I wanted to.
I had no idea that while I was meditation on portions of SOS and gaining spiritual and emotional healing from them that men had snuck into American pulpits and done violence against that book until I read about it here.
And finding out about the violence being done to SOS by MD and MD copycats was just the catalyst I needed to get started.
So I guess this is my thank you, Freedom.
Thanks for making me aware and indirectly jump starting the SOS portion of my blog. 🙂
You’re welcome, Mara. Glad I could be of some help. 🙂
This site “dedicated to church exiles everywhere” will bless you:
http://www.myspace.com/crazy_seraph
Brilliant. Thank you for posting. One of my friends’ husbands goes to this creepy “church” and he has been a pain in the ass to me for some time. Singling me out for very agressive attacks on Facebook and in person. I guess I’m too feminist for his taste.
I could not figure out WTF was going on. Like he sent me a totally nasty email and then informed me that 10 percent was nasty and 90 percent was funny. So I really didn’t have the right to be pissed off. I had overreacted. I was so confused. Then when I lost my temper he informs me that HE can’t sleep all night. Like, excuse me, who made HIM the victim here?
He doesn’t want his wife being friends w/ me. The whole thing has been very confusing and very upsetting. After reading this I finally understand what he’s doing. Chilling.
Thank you. 😦
Amy,
Wow, sounds like you are really dealing with “a wolf” who is very well versed and skilled in manipulative/controlling tactics… run! They really do have a way of confusing everyone around them, especially those whom they are abusing…
I’m sorry you’ve been treated this way by someone who probably claims to be a Christian–God only knows, maybe he has truly believed in Jesus as his Savior, AND he happens to suffer from a personality disorder such as Narcissism or Anti-Social Personality Disorder… I am curious though, are these people capable of recognizing they NEED a Savior? And are they even capable of repenting of their sin? Based on the DSM–therapist’s “bible” of mental illnesses and disorders, etc–it seems highly unlikely, well, apart from a miracle.
I’m glad this list of “tactics was able to help clarify what was actually going on in these interactions with this guy. Truth really does cut through the fog…
And as to being “too feminist” for that MH male member–well “feminist” can mean many things these days, but I will say this: if you believe that men and women are TRULY equal, not just in name (with the BS phrase, “Equal but different…”), but equal in, well, equality, that is, in power, authority, decision making, gifts of the Holy Spirit, callings to preach, prophecy, teach, etc, THEN you will be an enemy of MH and MD, or rather, they will count you their enemy, or perhaps both. 😉
If you haven’t yet done so, you might want to look at the posts here about the gender issues and gender abuse going on at MH and fiercely taught by MD. I say “fiercely” because it is such a degrading, egregiously harmful, and diabolical plot against women coming from the pit of hell. (I don’t feel strongly about that do I?)…
Freedom!
Anon,
Thanks for the link.
OK I’ll look, but I’m kinda scared at this point. I just hope I can still be friends with his wife. This guy is a psycho and I only realized it in the past 3 months. Prior to that I had no idea– for, like YEARS. He told me in May after his initial freakout at me that ironically enough, although his nastiness and sudden anger at my liberal politics had scared the shit out of me to the point where I basically fled their house, he was ACTUALLY trying to be closer to me and have a more “authentic” friendship. I was like, “huh? I didn’t realize there was any inauthenticity problem there dude.” I can’t even remember what caused THAT freakout. I think I had said something innocuous like, “Isn’t it nice to have a smart President.” He tells me intelligence is not even in his top ten list of what a President should be. And from there it was all downhill. Ohhhhh-Kaaaaay. On that occasion even his wife agreed he was being an ass.
And then, last week, major Facebook freakout on this asshole’s part because my friends and I were idly chatting about what a adulterous idiot Mark Sanford turned out to be and someone–not me!– suggested his wife divorce him. He went ballistic! Kept yelling at ME in email for 6 hours after i took down the fucking post just to defuse the issue! When I finally just yelled at him to shut the fuck up and stop harassing me, he gets all wounded and hurt. “I just wanted you to have a more forgiving attitude. Why can’t you accept a differing perspective?”
I think I’ll read the feminist stuff over a glass of red wine. The worst part is my friend is acting chilly to me now. Well, at least I found this site. Thanks for the insight! I’m scared but glad there are other sane people out there. Just glad I recalled in the recesses of my memory banks this AM that he goes to that church and googled it. I have been so upset and confused by all of this.
Well, hang in there, and keep yourself safe. ‘Red wine’ and ‘feminist stuff’… that’s funny. Good book title perhaps… hehe.
I just posted some comments on my latest post on Legalism… or Love Affair? This might be refreshing to you when you’re having your glass of red wine…
BTW: Zinfindel, Cabernet, or Merlot, or Shiraz, or?
Let me see… Hmmm. It is called “Night and Day” from the Oregon vineyard A to Z. Not sure what it is but it’s really good! I highly recommend it!
I cannot tell you how much your site, and this post in particular, has helped me. Thank you SO much for the public service you are providing! Virtually every single point in the description of this behavior took place , and it really hellped me to get this perspective. I had a weird feeling that I was apologizing to Asshole when I should not be apologizing but I coiuld not quite identify the issue.
I looked at some of the “gender” posts. Scary stuff. My friend wasn’t telling me if this is the crap she is getting at home about staying home w/ the kids/ not allowed to have a career. I’m worried.
I think I will wait a week or 2 and then reach out to her. She is being very frosty to me right now which sucks. I’m sure he fed her some fake version of events.
This is clearly a very delicate matter. “Hello, your husband is an manipulative Asshole but I really hope we can still be friends!” would Not go over too well. 😦
Was just reading this:
“Fifty three minutes: Driscoll describes how he protects his wife from other women who want to go have coffee with her and get to know her, because, guess what, “that is Satanic,” and he says he knows what they’re really up to. [Pray tell?]”
Very Interesting in light of my experience.
Hi, Amy.
I’m learning about MD and MH too.
Was aware of the man and church before but had no clue how bad it was till Freedom invited me here.
Then I was shocked.
Still sorting it all out.
I’m very sorry for your friend and your relationship with her.
I don’t hold out a lot of hope if she is sliding into this garbage along with her husband.
Are you a praying woman?
I only ask because I don’t see much else to do if she’s been sucked in until she comes around and realizes the deception. If she comes around at all. Some don’t.
I hate to sound bleak, but I’ve been in a church similar to MD’s minus the misogyny part. This makes MD’s church worse than the one I got out of.
Glad to see you researching.
Amy,
You’re welcome, and I’m glad to be of help. When it all started coming together as I researched MH and MD, I could not be silent… for me, to not speak up and warn others, to not offer a refuge and/or validation to those who’d been victimized and wounded by such a system, to me, that would be sin and heartlessness–knowing what I now know.
Yeah, manipulators are quite skilled in getting those whom they’ve intimidated/victimized to apologize to them for their abuse!
I’m afraid Mara may be right in regards to your friend. Not meaning afraid about prayer being the only thing you can do, but about trying to be friends with a woman married to a man like you describe… likelihood is that he is manipulating and controlling her and will make it very difficult if not impossible for her to be your friend because you now pose a threat…
Thanks for your support guys. Frankly my friend is acting like a complete jerk. She’s not speaking to me currently. If she actually participates in this cult (and lets her kids participate!) she definitely is not who I thought she was.
Glad there are fellow sane people out there!
Amy,
I’m sorry to hear your friend is “acting like a complete jerk.”
Another possibility to her not being who you thought she was, is that maybe she is who you thought she was AND she is also a little confused right now and under a lot of pressure from her husband who is under the pressure of Driscoll and MH.
In giving men their ‘priestly roles’ and ‘husbandly rulership’ aka: godhood over their wives and children (and all other women?), MH/MD is also demanding that these men fully submit to and serve MH/MD. That’s part of the bargain… so it seems.
It appears to me that that system brings bondage. I pray for freedom in Christ, according to Galatians and Romans, to all who would seek it.
And I’m glad there are some “sane people” too. 🙂
I’ve worked with abusive people many times and they are very good at getting over on anyone who is essentially trying to be fair. They know that those types of people tend to look at the whole picture objectively but in doing so they may be vulnerable to manipulation unless they learn to be strong and adjust accordingly when they know they are right. Many people in disgust at these experiences steel themselves off from future rewarding experiences with people due to being manipulated and suffering all sorts of negative outcomes. An example of this attitude forming might be thinking that all bosses are bad because some were that way. A real-life hangup with “Dilbert Syndrome” as anyone who has ever read those books knows how Dilbert gets treated by the boss, is funny in a book but there are actually some great and positive bosses out there who ironically are not thought of as “bosses” but leaders and even mentors on occasion!