NOTE: Please don’t overlook the “Misogyny” page in the right margin (Mars Hill is the “parent” page).
Do any, some, most or all of these descriptions fit your experience of Mars Hill and Mark Driscoll?
Dysfunctional Churches
by Ronald Enroth, Ph.D.
(Cult Observer, 1992, Volume 9, No. 4)
…Sociologists of religion (as well as many ex members) know that some churches are also dysfunctional, even to the point of being spiritually abusive. If truth in advertising standards could be applied to religion, some churches would be required to display a sign reading: “Warning: this church could be harmful to your spiritual and psychological health.”
Farfetched? Not if my own research of the past few years has any validity at all. Sadly, spiritual and pastoral abuse is more prevalent than most people believe. Like child abuse, it often goes undetected, or else it is strongly denied. …When [spiritually abusive leaders] misuse their ecclesiastical office to control their congregations, the results can be catastrophic.
What are the hallmarks of unhealthy, aberrant churches? The key indicator is control oriented leadership, ministers who have a need to “lord it over the flock.” Abusive leaders demand submission and unquestioning loyalty. The person who raises uncomfortable questions or does not “get with the program” is cast aside. Guilt, fear, and intimidation are used to manipulate and control vulnerable members, especially those who have been taught to believe that questioning their pastor is comparable to questioning God.
Why does a pastor or priest sometimes turn into a spiritual tyrant? I believe it is because of the human desire to control others and to exercise power over people. Each of us has been exposed to the temptation of power, whether in the role of spouse, teacher, or parent. An excessive will to power, coupled with sincere religious motives, can lead to the misuse of spiritual authority.
More than any other age group, young adults are attracted to abusive churches, their seemingly dynamic programs, and their “take charge” leaders. Such churches often target young couples during the crucial child bearing years. As a result, the energy needed by these young couples for legitimate family interaction is siphoned off into a high intensity cause. Family obligations are sacrificed, and children’s developmental needs are neglected.
How can we recognize a healthy church? In addition to matters of appropriate doctrine, a healthy church is reconciling and restorative, not adversarial and elitist. Members of healthy churches seek to deepen and strengthen their family commitments. Legitimate leaders will welcome dissent and hard questions from members without threat of reprisal. Trustworthy leaders will encourage accountability, and they will establish checks and balances.
Choose a church carefully and prayerfully. Remember, not all religion is benign, and not all church experience is beneficial.
Ronald M. Enroth, Ph.D
The following is a list from an article:
The Signs of Spiritual Abuse,
by Steven Lambert
Apotheosis of the leadership — exalting them to God-like status in and over the group;
Multi-level authority/government hierarchy;
Absolute authority of the leadership;
No real accountability of the leadership to the corporate body;
Hand-picked sub-leaders, based on their demonstration of submissiveness to the ultimate leader rather than on the basis of their leadership skills, spirituality, and anointing and appointment by God;
Pervasive abuse and misuse of authority in personal dealings with members;
Paranoia and insecurity by the leaders;
Abuse, misuse, and inordinate incidence of “church discipline;”
Personal materialism, covetousness, and self-aggrandizement by the leaders;
Members and/or sub-leaders must make a “spiritual covenant,” sometimes a signed covenant agreement, pledging their total commitment and financial support to the leadership and church/ministry;
Partitioning of the group into smaller groups that are led by internally “raised up” lay-leaders who have not been anointed or appointed by God for leadership within the church;
Financial exploitation and enslavement of the members;
De facto legalism, or works mentality, and its resulting loss of the “joy of salvation,” though “freedom” is forever preached from the pulpit
Esotericism — hidden agendas and requirements revealed to members only as they successfully advance through various stages of “spiritual enlightenment,” i.e., unorthodox, unproven indigenous doctrines;
Isolationism — corporate and individual, especially with respect to exposure to outside ministry sources;
Performance-based approval and promotion system of members predicated on “proven” “loyalty” (i.e., submission) to the leadership;
Devaluation, suppression, and non-recognition of members’ bona fide God-given talents, abilities, gifts, callings, and anointing, as a means of subjugation;
Constant indoctrination with a “group” or “family” mentality that impels members to exalt the corporate “life” and goals of the church-group over their personal goals, callings, and objectives;
Members are psychologically traumatized and indoctrinated with numerous improper fears and phobias aimed at keeping them reeling in diffidence and an over-dependence or co-dependence on their leaders and the corporate group;
Lack of true personal spiritual growth and development, especially in terms of genuine faith and experiencing the abounding grace, forgiveness, goodness, blessings, kindness, and agape-love of God;
Frequent preaching from the pulpit regarding not getting out from under the “spiritual covering” of the leadership;
Members departing without the prior permission and blessing of the leadership leave the group under a cloud of manufactured suspicion, shame, and slander;
Horror stories frequently told by leaders about individuals or families who left the group without the prior permission and blessing of the leadership, and the terrible consequences and curses they suffered as a result;
Departing members often suffer from various psychological problems and display the classic symptoms associated with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD).
http://www.slm.org/trtdigst/articles/abuse.html
pulled 2/8/09
This page has the following sub pages.
Thank you for taking the time to create this blog. The internet has become an incredible means in which folks are able to keep pastors/churches accountable. It is a relatively new form of “ministry” and I’m convinced, a biblical one.
It wasn’t long ago that men like Driscoll were able to build empires where vulnerable people became trapped in the idol worship of one pastor. The internet is keeping corporations, small businesses, salesmen, churches, and pastors accountable to the people. It is wonderful.
Listening to Mark Driscoll longer than 5 minutes should convince anyone that he is nothing more than a macho-man cult leader at every level. The disdain he has for women and his degrading speech toward his wife and others is repulsive. It is obvious (at least from an onlooker as myself) that his conscience has been damaged and I question his moral integrity and purity based on many of his statements in his sermons.
I cannot figure out for the life of me why John Piper or Al Mohler would have anything to do with endorsing him or his ministry.
Please raise the questions and continue bringing accountability. And may God open the eyes of the blind to the damage this man is doing to His work here on this earth and I pray that members of this church will rise up and do what should be done.
Lynn,
I’ve been going to MH for about three years now and am in the process of leaving, but I’ll say that I agree with most of what you and this site says. Any time I’ve questioned church authority or told someone I was leaving I got a pretty negative response. I’m glad there’s someone else who thinks along the same lines.
-Jonathan
I have recently left such a church myself in
the midwest, where the pastor has resisted rebuke for more than five years. I have learned my lesson. I’m going to do my homework thoroughly before I join another church.
Hard lessons learned, no doubt. But good for you, Margaret, for getting out of an abusive system. There are some very good books about spiritual/church abuse. If you’re interested, you might want to do a search on Amazon. One of my all time faves is Jeff VanVonderan’s, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse. There’s also a good one, which I have not yet read, I believe it’s by Ken Blue and it’s about how to find and discern a healthy, functional church.
All the best! And Happy Thanksgiving (even if you’re not in the US).
Freedom
Hi
I am texting from London and must say I have been part of abusive churches and from MDs Facebook page began to have red flags. Once again I am proven correct in trusting my instincts. I do think people are coming to Christ through the church but it seems to me that people worship Driscoll more than God at times. I have met him at a conference and he seems nice enough but the controlling aspects trigger me and fill me with rage.
Perhaps its crucial to highlight that cults etc usually attract people with a chaotic background and a need to have order. This explains why the need for control causes them to need to be controlled. I totally disagree with calvinism but think that some of the sermons ARE sound but if the control aspects were addressed surely things would be better?
Hi Blake,
I appreciate your comment. It’s good you are able to recognize an abusive system when you bump into one, and like most of us, it sounds like you’ve learned to do so via some hard and/or painful life experiences. Somewhere in the various corridors of this blog I do recall my having responded to someone with some of the aspects as to why young folks out here in Seattle are drawn to that kind of control; and I think you’re right, part of it could very well be the chaotic homes some of them have come from–and as I’d written about–part of it could be the postmodern “everything goes, there is no objective reality, no boundaries between right and wrong,” etc, so when a Mark Driscoll comes along, a spiritual leader who seems to veer more towards spiritual bullying, and this type of spiritual leader dictates all kinds of black and whites (even where the Bible does not or even against Scripture), well, it gives these pour souls a feeling of having a rock to stand on in today’s constantly shifting sands.
Freedom
Oh my dear woman….take the plank out of your own eye. The information you present about this pastor, while it may be true (or not) is unlovingly presented.
I pray you find the love and peace you need to be productive in your life…write a blog about Jesus, perhaps? Love, peace to you.
Get over yourself, Susan. The point of this whole thing is to warn others before they get sucked into this cult. Are we really to just look the other way while the damage continues?
Hi,
I personally suffered spiritual abuse at Mars Hill Church. It has been a year since the trauma and my wife and I are still recovering. The abuse began when I had raised concerns about some of their methodology. I was hauled in before 2 ‘pastors’ and my small group leader. My comments were quickly dismissed and I was labeled arrogant and prideful. At the end of an intense 1 hour session with these ‘pastors’ whom I had really only just met – I was convinced I was indeed the culprit.
But I knew once we left that something devious and manipulative had just happened. In the weeks after I was hounded incessantly to ‘pursue’ the leaders for ‘help’ in my repentance. But I prayed hard about what had happened and the manipulation that had taken place. God revealed to me that what they had done was in fact abuse. I asked repeatedly to be left alone – my wife and I thought we would just stay at arms length from these leaders. But that aggravated them more to the point where I received a cowardly email the next day after Sunday service labeled ‘Your Unrepentant Heart’ whereby we were asked not to come back. It was then clear, God was directing us away from MH and we had no choice but to leave.
God is good. I am confident that he is using this for our good. But in a million years I never would have believed this kind of thing happened at churches. I believe these people think they are doing you some good, but they delude themselves. The abuse is so deadly and so imperceptible. It has been the hardest trial of our lives, since we were eventually shunned and even by family members. Every now and then my wife and I will encounter MH members who immediately judge you for not going anymore. As if to say that there are no other churches out there – that everywhere else is a joke. As if to imply that MH owns Christ. But Christ is not owned by any church.
It is hard enough trying to defend yourself against a world that is opposed to you, how much more so when they are fellow Christians…
The righteous man has many troubles…
I really am sorry for your trouble, and I do watch sermons from Mars Hill Church. What happened? You just said you had “concerns about some of their methodology” I’d like to know those concerns. Because honestly I can’t agree with you, or look into something more if you leave things like this out. What did they say to you, what were they doing, being more specific would help. Thank you, and god bless.
Ben,
I was both touched and saddened by your story. I am so sorry to hear how you were mistreated at MH, although sad to say, not too surprised really.
Largely due to receiving your post in my email box the other morning I was inspired to finally come back and at least post something on this long-forsaken blog of mine. Please see my new post, #47, as I give some thoughts and perhaps some direction which might be of help to you and your wife.
I wish I had the energy to write more right now, but I am still recovering from surgery and have a family crisis to attend to.
Much compassion and heart felt understanding to you!
Freedom!
I am so sorry to hear of these comments about Mars Hill. I have generally had a positive view of M. Driscoll over the last few years, but I am not surprised by what I have just read.
My wife and I just left a church we had attended for 13 years and our story of abuse (primarily through abandonment in the context of two deaths in my life — daughter -suicide and twin brother -brain tumnor, within 6 months of each other) has been like I would have thought could never happen in an evangelical church. The problems at the church are structural and numerous and they became known to us vividly over some ten to twelve months. They involve a church membership policy that is controlling and abusive, where those who leave without meeting the unpublished criteria for disenrollment are used as a punching bag, or told that God is not speaking to those who decide to leave. People who raise issues are made the issue, because their ‘motives and attitudes’ didn’t meet the standard of approval by the leaders; the senior pastor called himself the ‘first among equals’ with reference to the ‘plurality’ of elders. It has been an amazing thing to experience, on top of the two bereavements I have experienced. Protocol is king and not with standing the fact that their soteriology is reformed, sermon after sermon could be labeled, ‘The triumph of law over grace.” Of all people, those who believe in the sovereignty of God in general and in salvation in particular, should be characterized by deep humility. Not this bunch. Very sad, very tragic.
Dear Ron,
I am so sorry to hear how you and your wife have suffered under yet another “law first” type of church. And as you stated, this is especially painful in the wake of deep loss. I pray you and your wife remain in the arms of our loving Father who embodies so beautifully both truth and grace–always, especially when many of His children do not. The problem is, we all bring our characterological issues into our spirituality, into our relationship with God, into our churches… then we all bounce off of each other, subconsciously attempting to reenact our family of origin. It gets messy.
Some excellent resources for healing from spiritual abuse as well as from our own character issues and wounds is cloudtownsend.com and newlife.com . Also, Jeff VanVonderen’s book, The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse is a classic; I highly recommend it if you have not yet read it.
But apart from all that, I hope and pray you stay connected with good, grace/truth filled Christians. They are out there, just hard to find some times.
Warmest regards,
Freedom! (Gal 5:1)
Wow, I was almost duped. The first couple of times I went to Mars Hill Ballard, I enjoyed the service to a point, but some things just didn’t sit right…strange emphasis on alcohol and sex, and the breakdown of the church finances made me feel like I was at a sales meeting. However, as someone who identifies strongly with indie culture, there is a certain aesthetic that was quite seductive to me.
So I tried the Downtown Seattle campus last Sunday night, and was really impressed by the worship band. It was music that finally sounded like something I would listen to maybe on KEXP. The sermon seemed to make sense, although now that I think about it, was centered on money. I was kind of excited though, and thought maybe I’d want to get involved.I took home one of their “This Is Mars Hill” brochures and began reading it, and stopped dead in my tracks about their position on women in ministry.
I am so glad I found your blog, along with other readings and research that confirmed my growing suspicions Driscoll was a meglomanic and the church was kind of a cult. Yikers! Ok, back to City Church I go. 😛
I am not surprised whatsoever either. That same sort of meeting scenario took place for us and it made no sense why I was screamd at for someting I never did or stepped foot in (that some liken as being non-christain). I had been a faithful memeber over ten years. When i questioned some of their teachings on headship and abuse, I was told that I needed to submit to church authority and told not to call police because they did not consider the situtation to be severe enough…to have church authority vs. civil be the guiding force in our lives. Later, it got so severe and weird that I was later my story was threat to the church due to bad press fears per a pastor’s own words.
So called sisters and brohters and Christ making it their business to forewarn my ex that I was seeking help in getting away from him caused him to step things up greatly. The same pastor who spoke to two attorneys stating he “supported my gettnig a restraining order but MHC higher ups would not let him get involved” later felt it appropriate to not only go on a social network site publicly discussing re my marriage amoungst MHC ‘friends’, but also had former leaders call and warn my husband too!
My ex then had not one or two but four differnt phone lines all programmed to the system in my vechile for pursposes of stalking and harassment (GPS, etc) At this point I would not be shocked to learn he did not act alone. Unexpained vandlism and pranks also occurerd. . It was surmised what was planned for me could have been long term or fatal impairment of one kind or another.
I am praying that I find a way to go to church again because the taste in my mouth is so so bad that I cannot stomach it if anything about it reminds me of MHC, Time heals all wounds and I am thankful to the Lord for my freedom in Him and for being away from my phoney husband who called them all a cult yet they chose to protect over me because he has a penis I suppose.
I left Mars Hill due to spiritual abuse. I have an amazing testimony about my dependance on God during that painful time. The best thing that family has told me is that I have done nothing wrong. I was trying to believe the best in people and make a good decision on whether to stay with the church or not–and I got mixed messages from members and leaders of the church. The Mars Hill church leaders who put me through the spiritual abuse at the end of my time at the church–it was like the truth is that the leaders had no dependance on God, no fear of God, only a fear of man and instilling fear in man. And it was like they were asking me to be a slave to man, to put Mars Hills as an idol over God. Those Mars Hill church leaders will never be able to give a testimony about what they did–they will hide the truth–how can you give a testimony if one is not dependant on God.
I chose God. I know what is right or wrong. I know that I cannot grow in my faith if I am slave of man. But I can grow in my faith if I love God. I encourage everyone to look at this church as a child of God. 1 Corinthians 7:22-24: “And remember, if you were a slave when the Lord called you, the Lord has now set you free from the awful power of sin. And if you were free when the Lord called you, you are now a slave to Christ. God purchased you at a high price. Don’t be enslaved by the world. So, dear brothers and sisters, whatever situation you were in when you became a believer, stay there in your new relationship with God.”
Thank you Jesus for convicting me and helping me grow in my faith.
God Bless.
Psalm 54
Save me, O God, by your name, and vindicate me to your might. Hear my prayer, O God;give ear to the words of my mouth. For the insolent have risen against me, the ruthless seek my life:they do not set God before them. But surely, God is my helper:the Lord is the upholder of my life. He will repay my enemies for their evil. In your faithfulness, put an end to them. With a freewill offering, I will sacrifice to you:I will give thanks to your name, O Lord, for it is good. For he has delivered me from every trouble, and my eye has looked in triumph on my enemies.
Romans 12:17-21
Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Do things in such a way that everyone can see you are honorable. Do your part to live in peace with everyone, as much as possible. Dear friends, never avenge yourselves. Leave that to God. For it is written, “I will take vengeance:I will repay those who deserve it,” says the Lord. Instead, do what the Scriptures say: “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink, and they will ashamed of what they have done to you.” Don’t let evil get the best of you, but conquer evil by doing good. ”
Dear God, I give you Mars HIll, and I lift up the voices and cries of the people who have gone through spirtual abuse from Mars Hill . I am giving this to you. Please help me to live in peace, but to set good boundaries for the future. As well, please guide me to find a healthy church where I can grow in my faith. Amen.
August 14, 2011 at 9:08 pm
I am trying to create a Facebook support group for parents, families, and friends of loved ones that have fallen victim and been brainwashed by Mars Hill Church. My daughter is one of what I am sadly sure are many beautiful, free thinking young people that have drank the Kool-Aid that Mark Driscoll is selling as the Word of God. I have been to the church many times so I have seen for myself that it is very seducing, but aren’t all cults and their leaders? When we think we have taught our children everything to go out into the world and be safe there they are ready to grab those young adults that are fresh out of school trying to find a place to fit in and create an adult life for themselves! They are convinced to marry young and have children to grow the membership! Driscoll is a salesman SELLING Jesus. Planting churches and having babies! In a recent sermon he said they needed to raise 15 million dollars next year. The more you give the higher up in heaven you will go! Really? Isn’t that whatScientology believes? This is not Christian to convince members to turn their backs on those in need. I have heard one member even say, “oh, well us Chrisians are hypocrites.” WHAT! Is that a pass to be liars and cheats? Well, My daughter is very young, in a new marriage and already pregnant. She is completely submissive to her husband. He has isolated from her family and friends.This is the first step in domestic abuse. If you or anyone you know are in the same boat please contact me so we can help each other and those we love that are being used and abused by Mark Driscoll and his gang.
Frank,
I am so sorry about your daughter. I pray she finds the freedom Christ died to give her. And sadly your assessment re: the beginnings of DV in her marriage sound spot on to me.
Whenever we give anyone absolute power, the tendency will be towards creating a little or big tyrant. When men are being taught that they should rule in the home (forgetting or downplaying Eph 5:21, and just starting at 5:22, wives SUBMIT!), they become little dictators, baby kings, and become very controlling of their wives and often emotionally abusive if not physically and sexually. It’s really ugly. That’s why in the NT there appears to be a lot of checks and balances and mutual accountability among the leaders and all Christians.
I believe no husband and no leader should even begin to think about speaking to their wives or churches about submission and obedience until they have consistently, over time, demonstrated their love as deep as Christ’s love, and their dying and giving up their lives for their wives and their churches just as Christ did for His bride and His church.
Another thing we all need to be mindful of is this: the commands in Eph 5:21-23 are for the people to whom they are being addressed, meaning, vs 21 is for everyone, v. 22 is for the wives TO APPLY TO THEMSELVES (not for their husbands to hold over their heads as some kind of a demand) and v. 23 is for the husbands TO APPLY TO THEMSELVES (not for the wives to demand from the husbands).
Good on you for creating a facebook page to help folks escape from and heal from spiritual abuse that seems to be occurring at MH.
Freedom!
Though my experience in a toxic house church wasn’t as bad as some, it was bad enough to make me contemplate suicide. The elders kept chiding me for lacking faith, having hidden sin, lusting for good vision, and liking rock music. I also spread the leader’s aberrant and blasphemous doctrines. Now I know the freedom of God’s grace and his fatherly kindness. I wrote my testimony in a book called How I Was Razed: A Journey from Cultism to Christianity. It’s available at Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and http://www.virtualbookworm.com. My prayer is that God will get it into the hands of those who need comfort and the key to deal with past hurts.
Naming names here really isn’t important, and I would like to impress a number of dichotomies which set up a situation which is described literally and anecdotally here.
Cult behaviour in the Mormons is to be expected, but when it is “mainstreamed” … that is the problem and question.
On one hand is a reasonable desire to confront the times in which we live – which are really a one way street. But on the other hand is an inability to be quick to PUBLICLY self correct situations which are exacerbated by the promotion of people out of their league.
Where elders, or sometimes just other people, are ACTUALLY far more gifted AND holy than those chosen to lead.
Further to no naming names are the problem of CG – care groups – which is straight out of Rick Warren’s playbook for crowd control for mega churches.
The problem is how this actively and passively suppresses all the anointing and gifting on individuals: “He who’s not rowing the boat … is rocking the boat”.
COULD there theoretically be SOME good CGs in this descriptor of Mars Hill – or any other so called mega church – yes … there could.
But the room for violation is SO great, the ability at genuine recourse SO small … it really a lot more than “leaving room for the devil” … but rather an entire paddock … after paddock.
We live in complicated times, and when Jezebel is inside the mindset of churches, when a church CLAIMS to be about REAL MEN … the questions of how 1 Timothy 2 warn against publicly humiliating men before wives/ women … are all but ignored.
As is on display during the CLASSIC “How Dare You” VIDEO. “Be angry at me” so the video says … but that doesn’t quite do it does it?
Threat video is more like it. An open threat to feedback and correction.
And is there protection against indecent behaviour such as this, regardless of its pretext of abusive men … and the damage it does to the esteem of brothers and the trustworthiness of elders, men and their position?
No. In this structure it is “out of hand” to answer back … but is it really?
That’s it. CC. HandleBullying.Com