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Posts Tagged ‘Controlling Personalities’

Freedom 4 Captives is taking a new turn…

I’m in the middle of launching my own business, and so I do not have much time and energy for this. But more importantly, I feel that I’ve been obedient to the Lord in speaking out the truth about that which was presented to me regarding apparent church/spiritual abuse at Mars Hill, mostly at the hands of the lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. I was responsible for the information given to me. I have made that known to you here on this blog. For me to go further would entail my policing Driscoll–which I’m really not interested in doing.

Driscoll will continue to be Driscoll, meaning, he will continue to be the Driscoll who–until I am informed otherwise–appears to be abusing God’s flock and setting up a system over which he can rule as supreme. That is my take. Based on my perceptions of Driscoll’s behaviors, his words and apparent attitudes toward women and people in general, until Driscoll falls on his knees, weeping and repenting before the throne of grace, and until he allows  (the biblical) Jesus, our only true healer of our broken hearts, to reach down and do a deep healing within him, he will continue to act out of his own pain, his own suppressed and repressed traumas. I pray for that day! I pray for Mark.

Dan. 12:10 reads, “Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.”

When we are ruling over a church in the spirit of those false shepherds whom God condemned in Ez 34, we are not pleasing God, we are not evidencing Christ nor His Spirit in our lives, we are not leading as Jesus leads and instructs us to lead, but rather we have become like the gentiles, lording it over one another, seating ourselves in “Moses’ seat.” This kind of dictatorship, similar to that which I perceive in Driscoll and in Mars Hill, is flat out condemned by God in Scripture over and over again! My point is that there are many Driscolls in the world as well as many of those who are on the polar opposite of Driscoll’s legalism, preaching liberal heresies– and all of these will continue doing what they’re doing… but those who submit to the Lord and to His Word, living by His Spirit, must continue doing so, following and obeying the Lord in true holiness despite what others are choosing to do.

2 Tim 3:13-14 “But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of…”

I invite any of you who happen upon or who have been tracking this site to please keep me informed if you know of any new important issues or spiritual/church abuse or false teaching at Mars Hill. Make a comment here or anywhere else in this blog, and please cite the source of your information. I’d like to keep this blog up to date so people can be informed, but I no longer feel the call nor the need for me personally to keep track on Mark. This blog, as it stands, is enough I would hope for the wise and wary to do their own research and think twice about committing themselves to what looks to be a very controlling and cult-like church system led by what seems to be a spiritually immature despot (compare Driscoll to 1 Tim 3, and, well, to Jesus!).

Rev 22:11-12 “Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy. Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.”

In Christ and in His Glorious Truth and Love!

FREEDOM!!!

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It appears to me that Driscoll exhibits many of these manipulation and control characteristics in his words and behaviors (see list below). If this is, as CD Host claims in the comments under

14. Cult-Like Spiritual Abuse Issues & By Laws In a Nutshell

merely a reflection of  Driscoll’s Reformed Theology and that all my issues with Driscoll amount to my issues with Reformed Theology (didn’t know I had the latter), then one can expect to receive much, if not all, of the abuse described in this blog as well as in the following list of manipulative tactics from those who are reformed theologians, pastors, believers… That is not my opinion, that is reflecting CD Host’s opinion (so please respond to him on that, not me). Not only that, but everything in this blog as to what I consider the abusive nature of Driscoll’s words and behavior can be attributed to his reformed theology, and hence, according to CD Host, of reformed believers, pastors, churches. I can imagine that many of you would highly disagree with those conclusions… but then again, for those of you who have found yourself in a legalistic setting which happened to be a group of reformers, one might heartily agree with CD Host.

Regardless, you might want to take this list with you–and others provided in this blog regarding traits of abusive churches and pastors and symptoms of spiritual abuse– and compare these with what you see and hear as you read Driscoll’s books, read my posts, watch his podcasts, and listen to people who have fallen out of his good graces (that is, DISSENTERS who–gasp–dared to have their own opinions, dared to question him,–which is a sin according to MD– and dared to disagree on any of his Bible interpretations).

(And, by the way, I’d summarized this prior to my knowledge about Driscoll–so I was not writing this “to him” or even with him in mind. Rather, I was thinking of those who exploit, abuse, manipulate and control in general).

Tactics of Manipulation & Control

From  Simon’s Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing

As Summarized by Freedom

Minimizing: Turning mountains into molehills (the character disordered and/or perpetrators do this; neurotics do the opposite). He trivializes the nature of his wrong doing. He tries to convince you that you would be wrong to conclude that his behavior is as wrong as he knows you suspect.

Lying: Omission, distortion. Your abuser/manipulator will stop at nothing to get what he wants; therefore, you can and should expect him to lie. They have refined lying to an art. He will withhold a significant amount of the truth from you, or distort essential elements of the truth, to keep you in the dark. He uses smooth, calculated omissions to deceive you.

Denial: “Who Me?” He poses as the humble servant. Your aggressor refuses to admit he’s done something harmful or hurtful when he clearly has. This “Who Me?” tactic invites the victim, you, to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior. It’s also a way for him to give himself permission to keep right on doing what he wants to do. He uses this maneuver to get you to back off, back down or maybe even feel guilty for insinuating he’s doing something wrong.

Selective Inattention: Refusal to pay attention to anything that might distract him from pursuing his agenda. He actively ignores your warnings, pleas or wishes and refuses to pay attention to everything or anything that might distract him from going after what he wants.

Rationalization: Excuses. Justifications. A rationalization is an excuse your aggressor/abuser makes for engaging in what he knows is an inappropriate or harmful behavior. This can be very effective, especially when he makes just enough sense that any reasonably conscientious person is likely to fall for it. If he can convince you he is justified in whatever he’s doing, then he is freer to pursue his goals without interference. He will often use shame and guilt to coerce you into buying his rationalizations / excuses / justifications.

Diversion: Distraction. Changing the subject. Dodging the issue. Throw you a curve ball. A moving target is hard to hit. When you try to pin your manipulator down or keep a discussion focused on a single issue or behavior you don’t like, he is expert at changing the subject, distracting, dodging and throwing curves. He utilizes this maneuver to keep the focus off his behavior, move you off track, keep you off balance and maintain his freedom to promote his self-serving hidden agenda. Confronting a manipulator is like trying to nail Jello to a wall.

Evasion: Your manipulator uses vagueness to avoid being cornered on an issue by giving rambling, irrelevant responses to a direct question. He deliberately uses vagueness to confuse you, to make you think you have an answer when you don’t. When he is not responding directly to an issue, you can safely assume he is trying to give you the slip.

Covert Intimidation: This is your abuser’s use of veiled threats to keep you, his victim, anxious, apprehensive and one down. The abuser is adept at countering arguments with such passion and intensity that he effectively throws you on the defensive. A manipulator primarily intimidates you by making veiled threats. This way he can threaten you without appearing overtly hostile and aggressive.

Guilt Tripping: “How could you think that of me??!” “How could you doubt me?!” Your manipulator keeps you self-doubting, anxious and submissive. This is one of your aggressor’s two favorite weapons, the other is shaming. Aggressive personalities know that others have very different consciences than they have. They also know that the hallmark qualities of a sound conscience are the capacities for guilt and shame. Your manipulator is skilled at using what he knows to be a greater conscientiousness in you, his victim, as a means of keeping you in that anxious, submissive state where you doubt yourself and your perceptions. All your manipulator has to do is suggest to you that you don’t care or that you’re being selfish or cruel [in finally calling them on their abuse] and you immediately start to feel bad. Whereas you can try until you’re blue in the face to get your manipulator to feel remorse for his hurtful behavior, acknowledge responsibility and admit wrong doing, to absolutely no avail.

Shaming: Your abuser uses subtle sarcasm and put downs as a means of increasing fear and self-doubt in you. He shames you to make you feel inadequate and unworthy so you will defer to his dominant position.

Victim Stancing: He plays the victim role to gain sympathy, evoke compassion in order to get something from you. He also uses this to play a false one down position to you in order to disarm you. If your manipulator can convince you that he’s suffering, then you, being a caring, sensitive soul, will want to relieve his distress.

Vilifying the Victim: Your abuser makes it appear that he is merely responding to and defending himself against YOUR aggression, making you, the victim, feel like the villain while he masks his aggressive intent and behavior.

Servant Role: Your manipulator cloaks his self-serving agendas in the guise of service to a noble cause; he pretends to work nobly on your behalf while concealing his own desire for power and dominance. One hallmark of a covert aggressive personality is he will loudly profess his subservience while fighting for dominance.

Seduction: He charms, praises, flatters you and overtly supports you to get you to lower your defenses and surrender your trust and loyalty. Your manipulator is particularly aware that to the extent you are emotionally needy or dependent (that is, vulnerable, which everyone is to some extent), you will desire approval and reassurance and a sense of being valued and needed above anything. Appearing to be attentive to these needs can be his ticket to incredible power over you. He melts any resistance you might have to giving him your loyalty and confidence. He does this by giving you what he knows you need most. You don’t find out how important you really are to him until you turn out to be in his way.

Blame Shifting (Projecting the blame onto you): Your aggressor is always looking for ways to shift the blame for his abusive behavior away from himself. He is expert at finding scapegoats in subtle, hard to detect ways. His willingness to blame you for his abusive behavior is in itself an abusive act. At the very moment he is engaging in the use of this tactic or any other he is in the act of aggressing.

Feigning Innocence: He attempts to convince you that any harm he may have caused you was unintentional or that he really didn’t do what he’s being accused of. This makes you question your judgment and sanity and to doubt your right to call him on his abusive behavior. He adroitly uses the look of surprise or indignation, or the sudden gasp at being so accused.

Feigning Confusion: Your abuser acts like he doesn’t know what you’re talking about or is confused about the issue you’re bringing. Plays ‘dumb’ to get you to question your perceptions, sanity, etc…

Brandishing Anger: Calculated, deliberate display of anger he may or may not feel in order to intimidate, coerce and manipulate.

When somebody uses these tactics frequently, you not only know what kind of character you’re dealing with (covert aggressors, manipulators, abusers, Narcissists, Anti-Socials, Borderline Personalities, etc…) but precisely because the tactics are both tools of manipulation as well as manifestations of resistance to change, you also know that he will engage in his problematic behaviors again. You can give up your fantasy that in time he will change and things will be different. Nothing will change until he decides to stop fighting and start accepting. As long as he’s engaged in utilizing these tactics, it’s clear he doesn’t intend to change.

In Sheep’s Clothing, by George K. Simon, p. 96-112

Freedom’s NOTE: And of course, with an abuser, especially a “professional” abuser, it is never appropriate to hang around in the abusive relationship hoping he will change. The point in the paragraph above is that as long as he’s aggressing, he has no intent to change. Realizing this could prove helpful to us in letting go of more denial about the abusiveness in the relationship and any hope we may have of reconciling with the abuser and picking up where we left off: namely, being abused by him again but calling it ‘love.’

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This is who Jesus says I am… This is who the Bible says I am… What say you?

…And, are half of His precious human creation to continue to be harassed, demeaned and oppressed by you and the men you train?

I pray to God that you and “your men” fall on your knees, repent hard and heavy, and answer, “No more. The abuse of God’s precious women stops here, and it stops now, in the name of Christ, Amen!”

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Verbal & Emotional Abuse

I was listening to June Hunt on the radio the other evening, and what she described reminded me of Patricia Evans Book, The Verbally Abusive Relationship, and together, these took me immediately to various videos of Mark’s sermons (especially the abusing abusers one) as well as to many accounts of those who write about having been directly harmed by him and the MH system.

June Hunt talked about the following:

NOTE:  [my words in [brackets] ]

Abuse is basically to be mistreated.

Emotional abuse is any ongoing behavior used to control and manipulate another [or a group].

It damages the victim’s sense of dignity and wounds their spirit.

Pr 18:14, “A man’s spirit sustains him in sickness,
but a crushed spirit who can bear?

People who abuse are not healthy and whole, they are fear based.

Pr 12:18 “Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing.”

[If Mark Driscoll is as verbally/emotionally abusive as he appears at times to be, especially in his stage presence and his alleged interactions with several members, then for those who know Mark up close and personal–perhaps the elders who were apparently unjustly fired because they dared to question him and his new By-Laws, perhaps his wife, Grace, and/or perhaps those who are his “friends” and subordinate pastors, etc… –some of this might fit when you think of Mark]:

Control, control, control. Overtly, and/or covertly. The Passive Aggressive Abuser emotionally and verbally abuses by using sarcasm, ignoring, giving the silent treatment. His tactics are invalidating, “I never said that. You’re perceptions are wrong.” He uses minimizing and countering. It doesn’t matter what the truth is. Truth is disregarded. What’s true is what he says is true, period. He gets you with the passive dagger. It’s all about his efforts to obtain and maintain control and he’ll do whatever it takes to get that. He is a master of manipulation.

June’s web site is:

http://www.hopefortheheart.org/site/PageServer

[She seems to offer some good stuff. I have not yet read her books.]

The following comes from:

http://www.narcissisticabuse.com/verbalabuse.html

pulled 5/7/08, and is written by Kerby Anderson of Probe Ministries, www.probe.org

He acquires much of his information below from Patricia Evans book, The Verbally Abusive Relationship, and from Bach and Deutsch’s, Stop! You’re Driving Me Crazy.

VERBAL ABUSE:

…Verbal abuse is a kind of battering which doesn’t leave evidence comparable to the bruises of physical battering. … Like any area of human action, [verbal/emotional abuse] begins in the mind and heart [of the abuser]. Proverbs 23:7 says, “For as he thinks within himself, so he is.” What a person thinks in his mind and heart will be reflected in his words and actions.

… The victim of verbal abuse lives in a gradually more confusing realm. In public, the victim is with one person. While in private, the abuser may become a completely different person.

…  A victim is often the target of angry outbursts, sarcasm, or cool indifference. The abuser’s reaction to these actions is frequently cloaked in a “What’s wrong with you?” attitude. She is accused of “making a mountain out of a molehill.” Over time she loses her balance and equilibrium and begins to wonder if she is the one who is crazy.

The key to healing is to recognize verbal abuse for what it is and to begin to take deliberate steps to stop it and bring healing. Since the abuser is usually in denial, the responsibility for recognizing verbal abuse often rests with the partner [or the parishioner].

Characteristics of Verbal Abuse

Now I would like to focus on some of the characteristics of verbal abuse as outlined in The Verbally Abusive Relationship.

1. Verbal abuse is hurtful and usually attacks the nature and abilities of the partner. Over time, the partner may begin to believe that there is something wrong with her or her abilities. She may come to feel that she is the problem, rather than her partner.

[Notice, it attacks the PERSON not their specific behavior. It is shame based. The purpose is to make you feel inferior and flawed, to increase your self-doubt. By de-stabilizing you, the abuser can more easily control you. Driscoll was attacking the people in his rant, not merely their behavior. He was shaming them.].

2. Verbal abuse may be overt (through angry outbursts and name- calling) or  covert (involving very subtle comments, even something that approaches brainwashing). Overt verbal abuse is usually blaming and accusatory, and consequently confusing to the partner. Covert verbal abuse, which is hidden aggression, is even more confusing to the partner. Its aim is to control her without her knowing.

[Driscoll is becoming quite famous for his “angry outbursts and name calling.” He comes across as extremely accusatory and blaming. This is verbal/emotional abuse. Those who know him closely probably get a taste of the covert abuse.]

3. Verbal abuse is manipulative and controlling. Even disparaging comments may be voiced in an extremely sincere and concerned way. But the goal is to control and manipulate.

[In another clip, when Driscoll superficially apologizes for his pride and then quickly launches into his criticism about how proud the parishioners and “a couple of elders” in ‘his’ church are, he is being manipulative. When he squelches all dissent, he is being controlling. He apparently has no problem with tearing into his congregation, and then in the blink of an eye, going into this soft, compassionate voice and looking directly into the camera, face smoothed out of former disdainful expression, and saying something like, “It’s because I love you…”].

4. Verbal abuse is insidious. The partner’s self-esteem gradually diminishes, usually without her realizing it. She may consciously or unconsciously try to change her behavior so as not to upset the abuser.

[From the ex-Mars Hillians’ stories I have read, their self esteem seems to have been diminished by their experience at MH, and most of them seemed to have tried to alter their behavior to please and submit to Driscoll’s apparently legalistic system].

5. Verbal abuse is unpredictable. In fact, unpredictability is one of the most significant characteristics of verbal abuse. The partner is stunned, shocked, thrown off balance by her mate’s sarcasm, angry jab, put-down, or hurtful comment.

[At the beginning of the ranting clip against abusers, Driscoll was talking in a somewhat normal tone, when all of a sudden he takes in a breath, (I found myself instinctively holding mine), he then spews out in high volume, “How dare you?! Who the hell do you think you are?! …” and proceeds with what appears to be his own abusive rage (and most definitely NOT the Holy Spirit as Mark claims it to be).  It was unpredictable and shocking. When he goes into his tirade of the abusers ‘out there’ not being God, not being men, etc… and calls them “little boys” who need to man up before they love a woman, he is dripping with disdain and sarcasm.  Mark yells in the face of his audience, “You change now, little boy–You change right now. You shut up. You put your pants on. You get a job. You grow up.” This is simply unadulterated verbal/emotional abuse].

6. Verbal abuse is not a side issue. It is the issue in the relationship. When a couple is having an argument about a real issue, the issue can be resolved. In a verbally abusive relationship, there is no specific conflict. The issue is the abuse and this issue is not resolved. There is no closure.

[How could one ever get closure on much of anything when dealing with a verbal/emotional abuser who insists they are always right and you are always wrong, one who fights dirty and will shame, blame, block, divert, minimize, withhold, threaten, etc., at a moment’s notice in order to win, no matter what? The issue in relating with such a person is the abuse and that cannot be resolved until he comes out of his denial and seeks help. This is rarely accomplished unless the abuser’s entire world crashes through and he is bereft of subjects over whom he might exert control… but, alas, even then, change is real iffy].

7. Verbal abuse expresses a double message. There is incongruence between the way the abuser speaks and his real feelings. For example, he may sound very sincere and honest while he is telling his partner what is wrong with her.

[Driscoll appears at times to be really, sincerely preaching God’s Word, but upon closer inspection, he is mostly preaching aspects interpreted in ways he is comfortable with, the parts that allow him to tell us how bad we are, how much we fail, and how much we’d better listen to him and submit to his authority and buck up and deal with it. From my limited perspective thus far, I see much emphasis on commands, obedience to leaders and submission of women to men, where there is a lot of apparent condemnation for not doing the Christian life perfectly… I have not seen anything about a deep intimate love relationship with Christ (in fact, he generally mocks intimate loving worship as being too ‘chickified’), nor do I see much on a loving “Abba, Father” relationship with our Father in Heaven, nor do I see much if anything about the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit, our “Paraclete” (Gk) the one who comes along side, our Comforter. And yet, for all of that, Driscoll claims to “love” us and to “love” God. This whole thing feels completely incongruent to me. He mostly seems angry and uptight, and he does sound “very sincere and honest while he is telling us what is wrong with us.”]

8. Verbal abuse usually escalates, increasing in intensity, frequency, and variety. The verbal abuse may begin with put-downs disguised as jokes. Later other forms might surface.

[It would be interesting to go back and review much older sermons of Driscoll’s to observe his escalating over time in these kinds of abusive behaviors, both in frequency and in intensity].

More to come on Verbal/Emotional Abuse in Comparison to Driscoll’s Words & Behaviors.

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You might want to check out this link after you skim below.

http://thepracticingchurch.com/2009/06/07/the-driscoll-rant-an-apology-to-non-christians/comment-page-1/#comment-2676

I did not explore the rest of this site, but very much appreciated this post, the comments and dialogue. The video of course and the transcript that one commenter included is… well… a picture paints a thousand words…

Here is the transcript of this section of Mark’s sermon “against” abuse and abusers… I wonder if MD looks in the mirror and applies his own words to himself? Sadly, from my perspective, he is yelling about / against some of the behaviors and characteristics I see in him… He also attempts to shame others into obedience (research and experience prove this rarely, if ever, works over the long haul), and he swings his arm around as if he is backhanding someone in the face, then points his finger angrily at the congregation, while yelling at them. I got a sad image of what it may have been like in little Driscoll’s home where his alcoholic father may very well have behaved similarly.

In the transcript below, the parts in bold I wonder if they might apply to MD, and that he needs to say these to himself… Some of these I pray MD would hear and apply, some I pray he would repent of in his own heart and life… The parts in italics, are me going “huh??”

It is always a shock to me when someone who behaves in manipulative, controlling and abusive ways condemns the very same behavior in others all the while being completely oblivious that they are describing themselves!

Some of you guys are just–it’s so frustrating. Some of you guys have been coming here for years–you still got your hands all over your girlfriend.

Some of you guys been coming’ here for years–you’re still not praying with your wife. Some of you guys been coming’ here for years–you’re still single and having sex.

Some of you guys will even–even as I’m preaching the sermon–some of you will be sitting next to your girlfriend or your fiancé or your wife. Some of you guys have already given her that look. “Don’t cry, don’t let ‘em know they’re talking about me–just hold it together.” You’ve already intimidated her right here.

Some of you guys have already whispered in her ear. “I don’t want to hear it–we’re not talking about this in the car on the way home.” Some of you have already whispered in her ear, “I’m sorry, I’ll do better. Trust me–let’s just move on real quickly.”

How dare you?

Who the hell do you think you are? Abusing a women–neglecting a women

being a coward–a fool. Being like your father Adam. Who do you think you are?

You’re not god, you’re just a man.

You’re not an impressive man.

You’re not a responsible man.

You’re not a noble man.

You’re not a respectable man.

You’re not a responsible man in any regard.

I don’t care how successful you are. In this area, if you are a failure, It clouds all of your dignity. It robs all of your masculinity. There is no excuse for any man who claims the name of Christ to treat a woman in a dishonorable disrespectful way.

Some of you right now–you guys will get all angry. How dare he yell at me?

That’s the Holy Spirit telling you it’s you. I didn’t name you–he did.

You change now, little boy–You change right now. You shut up. You put your pants on. You get a job. You grow up, and maybe one day you can love a woman. It’s for men not for boys.

And those of you men who are here, and you’re wives are suffering under your folly and failure–shame on you.

Shame on you if you say you’re a Christian

And shame on you if you’ve not been attending Mars Hill

And shame on you if you’ve been surrounded by good men and have pursued none of them.

And shame on you if you’ve not become a member and submitted to spiritual authority.

And shame on you if you’ve not joined a community group so you can walk in darkness.

And shame on you if you’ve shown up to put communion in your hands representing the body and blood of your murdered savior and then go put them on your girlfriend or download porn from the internet or raise your hand in a threat to your wife.

Shame on you!

You guys are a joke. And there are a handful of good men who are tired of picking up your mess. So you step up, you shut up, you man up, and you use all that anger you have toward me right now to repent–you do business with God.

I’m going to let you sit in this for a while.

You don’t go get your kids–you don’t get up and leave. We’re going to do something we’ve never done–we’re going to pass the plate–you can give your tithes and offerings. Early on in the church, 1995 or 6, we didn’t. I didn’t want anyone to think badly of me. I haven’t led well in this area. We have people who come to this church every week they don’t worship. They take, they don’t participate. If you’re disconnected please fill out the visitor card. Thousands of people fall through the cracks. Don’t lose this opportunity to get connected, so we can help.

When you’re ready, you take communion–but you men–you hear me this. You apologize to your wife before you take communion. Corinthians says if you don’t, you’ll drink judgment on yourself. God might even kill you right here to make an example of you. If you’re here with your girlfriend, you apologize. If you’re a little boy, you break up with her in love. And you tell her that you’re not ready, and that she deserves better–because God’s daughters need to be loved like Christ loved the church.

When you’re ready–when you’ve sat in it for a while, you take communion, you give of your tithes and offerings, and then you sing in repentance to Jesus. I do love you. I am furious with some men, and I believe that fury is God’s. You are not cute, and he is not pleased, and time is short.

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The following is from lollytruly’s blogspot. It highlights some of the specifics regarding Driscoll’s behavior and words which many, like myself, take to be abusive and non-representative of the character and heart of our Lord Jesus Christ.  The following also fleshes out the sad reality that those who point out abuse in an abusive system become THE problem, while the issue of the abuse and the abuser are swept under the carpet.

http://lollytruly.blogspot.com/search?q=mark+driscoll

Friday, February 20, 2009

…My head is beginning to feel peaceful again after the Mark Driscoll stuff a couple days ago. Crying painfully helps you heal if you process everything while you’re doing it. That’s another fun fact I’ve learned in therapy, that weeping mends you and you have to go there if you’re going to heal from it. I don’t mean for that to be TMI but I think being open can be really good. Makes me think of this quote – “It is important to tell our secrets too because … it makes it easier for other people to tell us a secret or two of their own, and exchanges like that have a lot to do with what being a family is all about and what being human is all about.” — Frederick Buechner
http://lollytruly.blogspot.com/2009/02/dave-eggers-karl-rove-together-again.html

5/30/09

Tuesday, February 17, 2009

it’s not a dead horse and it’s worth beating. let’s not lose hope

Here is a letter from a little over two years ago, written by Shari MacDonald Strong whom I subsequently made friends with because of her character, insight and gentleness. In this she writes about the protest of Mars Hill in Seattle on Dec 3.

Friday, November 17, 2006

Why On Earth Would I Want to Picket a Church? More on the Mark Driscoll/Mars Hill Seattle Action

To: Mark Driscoll
Mars Hill Elders and Deacons
Acts 29 Church Planting Network
Seattle Times

As a Christian woman who is planning to participate in the planned December 3 protest at Mars Hill, I wanted to write to explain my reasons for wanting to do so and to share my concerns about some of Mr. Driscoll’s recent teachings and writings.

Let me start by saying, I appreciate Mr. Driscoll’s recent blog post, in which he amends his previous blog entry about the Ted Haggard affair and about the dangers of pastor’s wives “letting themselves go.” In particular, I am grateful for the gentle tone of the post. I believe that if this were the tone that he was known for, there would not be this current firestorm of emotion around his teachings.

It was the Ted Haggard post that brought Mr. Driscoll’s teachings most recently to my attention. However, I live on the West coast and have heard of him before. I know both that Mark Driscoll is a very powerful man and that many, many people – a large percentage of which are women – have left Mars Hill Church and sometimes the larger church as a result of Mr. Driscoll’s teachings. I also have heard that many people have sought therapy after leaving Mars Hill, as a result of the damage done by his teachings. That last statement, of course, is based on hearsay, so I went online to read some of Mr. Driscoll’s writings and to listen to some sermons. In addition to the comments about women “letting themselves go,” here is some of what I encountered (in random order):

• Derogatory comments made regularly and consistently about people who disagree with Mr. Driscoll’s theology, labeling them not only wrong or liberal, but “wussified,” “#######,” “chickified,” and “effeminate” (e.g., “if the Christ you serve is just a really nice guy – I hate to tell you, but you serve a weak, effeminate, ####### Christ”).

• Stating/implying that men are the only demographic that matters:
The question is: “If you want to be innovative, how do you get young men?” All this nonsense about how to grow the church – one issue: young men. That’s it – that’s the whole thing. They’re going to get married, make money, make babies, build companies, buy real estate; they’re going to make the culture of the future. If you get the young men you win the war – you get everything; you get the families, the women, the children, the money the business: you get everything. If you don’t get the young men you get nothing.

• Calling strong women who disagree with his interpretation of Scripture “godless” and saying the Bible has “a low opinion” of them:
If it’s a godly woman who has a godly agenda who has something godly to say, then she can speak. If she’s an ungodly woman with a godless feminist agenda that she borrowed from the serpent, like her mother Eve in Genesis 3, and she’s on some tirade mission to represent all women, which is what sometimes happens, women nominate themselves to represent all women…But there are women who will rise up like that, saying “I speak for all women. I champion women’s rights. I champion women’s causes” (sarcastically). We say, that’s not a problem if it’s in accordance with the rights and liberties and dignities that are afforded to a woman in the Bible. The Bible doesn’t have a low view of women. It just has a low view of some women.”

• “…women who don’t respect godly authority are demonic.”

• Rather than Mr. Driscoll simply saying that he disagrees with the lifestyles of young men who work in coffee shops and suggesting an alternative or challenging them, he makes fun of them. He uses shame to get men to do what he wants, calling them “chickified,” “limp-wristed,” “#####,” “#######.”

• More mocking of women who disagree with him, painting women who have opinions as “hot-headed” and “emotional,” and more implications that God doesn’t like these women:
“some women think they can do everything on their own” and that if men sit by idly like cowards because they don’t want to get into with with their hot-headed, emotional, wives, eventually the women will take over the church, and then the church will go to hell.”

• Undermining women’s efforts to hold him accountable for his words, implying that the raising of theological questions by a woman is the same thing as them calling the Bible “ridiculous,” and calling the squelching of a woman’s intellect and voice “sexy”:“Does it say, “Ladies, don’t have any questions”? Does it say that? No. Does it say, “Ladies, don’t disagree.” No. Does it say, “Ladies, don’t think for yourself.” When you disagree, when you’re super-theological, when you’re all fired up, the first thing you don’t do is start yellin’ at the pastor and yellin’ at the church, firin’ nasty e-mails, and declarin’ war and puttin’ together a, a, little group of, you know, feminist women with guns who are gonna make a difference.”
If you’re married, you go talk to who? Your husband. You say, “Sweetheart, I was readin’ The Bible, I think it’s ridiculous.” And he would say, “We should probably talk.” “Honey I was readin’ the Bible, I don’t understand.” He should say, “Let’s, let’s study that together. Let’s take some time, and study — together. Now some of you will protest and say, “THAT is SEXIST!” As a married man, I will tell you, it is sexy. That’s what it is. There is nothin’ hotter than a wife with a great new testament, commentaries, concordances, and questions. That is theological foreplay. It’s awesome. Because now you’re connecting at the level of then heart and the soul and god is honoring of that.”

There is more, but I believe I’ve more than made my point. Frankly, I am upset, I am concerned, I am angry, and I am embarrassed to belong to the same religion as Mark Driscoll. I am deeply offended – not by God, but by Mark Driscoll. If I believed that Mr. Driscoll’s words and attitude were reflective of the God of Christianity, I would walk away from Christianity altogether. I read at least one report of a former Mars Hill member who has. Unfortunately, as the Christian religion writer for the Seattle Times, in addition to his other roles, Mark does for many represent the face of Christianity. As that representative, he is showing the world a religion that is mean-spirited and unkind, one that depends upon mockery and shame, ######### and disrespect, smugness and name-calling to make its points.

…Again, I appreciate Mr. Driscoll’s clarifying blog post about the Haggard situation, although I wish he had said “I’m sorry, I was wrong” instead of simply saying he’d been “misconstrued.” Mr. Driscoll should apologize publicly for all the things referenced above, for the mean, flippant attitude with which he is attempting to deliver the gospel.

In the original, offending blog post, Mr. Driscoll wrote: “At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors’ wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness…” If he realized that the post would make him “more despised,” then why say something he already has recognized as being despicable? …
Yet Mark Driscoll continues to deliver messages filled with meanness and sarcasm and mockery of those who have different opinions or theological positions, and the congregation laughs whenever he does this. Who is holding him accountable? Who, among the Acts 29 community and/or Mars Hill, is talking with him about this, saying: “Mark, you can’t be this mean. This has to stop”?

I realize that I am exactly the type of strong-willed, opinionated woman that Mark Driscoll believes to be “an ungodly woman with a godless feminist agenda that she borrowed from the serpent, like her mother Eve in Genesis 3.” I do have an opinion about this matter (though I don’t have that pushup bra he accused all feminists of having), and I feel it is my responsibility to stand up and say something. Mr. Driscoll will likely see this letter as fitting his example of those “super-theological,” “fired up” “feminist women with guns who are gonna make a difference.” I admit, I do hope to make some difference in this situation (no gun, though); unfortunately, I don’t really expect this letter to change his heart.

I am, however, appealing to those surrounding him: Please listen. Please understand that Mark Driscoll’s teachings and his harsh, unkind, mocking words are hurting women and hurting the church. Please set up some form of accountability (or, if one exists, a stronger form of accountability). Ask him to get some therapy. … Listen to his sermons with a discerning ear and hold him accountable for what he’s teaching; if the tone of the above comments continues, remove him from leadership. Ask him to apologize, publicly. Most importantly of all, please set up some kind of information-seeking group within the church to hear the stories of people who have been hurt by Mr. Driscoll and his teachings – and be willing to act upon what you learn.

You have the power to do something about this. All I have is the power to write this letter. And to stand outside the church, holding a sign. Which is why I still plan to attend the protest on December 3. This isn’t an attempt to be divisive and it isn’t an attempt to persecute anyone, as some Mars Hill members have claimed. It’s simply an attempt to say: “Somebody please do something. Please stop this.” The question is: Are you listening?

Sincerely,

Shari MacDonald Strong

Posted by stephy at 9:03 AM 44 comments

Comments to Shari’s letter:

February 17, 2009 1:05 PM

A. [to another commenter] This is not a matter of scriptural interpretation. It’s a matter of your fellow sister in Christ feeling spiritually abused. We can be skeptical and hard-headed (i.e. “Let’s not fight and argue about who killed who”–monty python), or we can honor the fact that Shari spoke passionately into the chaos while others sat idly by and accepted Marks words at face value because he has a degree and a pulpit.

February 17, 2009 1:31 PM

Shari

B. How sad that so few people feel safe enough within the evangelical church to stand up and say that something abusive or unkind is transpiring, and how sad that this is the nearly universal response when they do.

Powerful men never fail to have their defenders. Let me tell you how many Acts 29 folks, Driscoll fans, Christian leaders, or others contacted me after this letter was posted widely on the internet, to find out more about how Mark Driscoll was hurting women and whether or not something should be done about it: zero.

If Mark Driscoll (and pastors like him, and I’ve known many) hadn’t driven me away from the evangelical church, responses like this (and a widespread lack of caring about fair/respectful treatment of women within the church) would have.

The evangelical church is perfectly capable of greater kindness and understanding. But until people actually give a crap about the people who get hurt (women, in particular) and want to know more about how and why they’re hurting, it will remain the same sort of self-satisfied, lifeless social club that Jesus had hoped to transform.

February 17, 2009 6:25 PM

Shari

…C. Thanks so much for your words, L. The fact that anyone would read Driscoll’s words and would not only not renounce them, but would instead point the finger at someone who is raising a red flag of warning, utterly dumbfounds me. The fact that an entire city, and the larger evangelical community, has little concern about the damage Driscoll is doing in the name of Jesus, breaks my heart.

February 17, 2009 7:03 PM

D.  Dear Shari MacD,

…I like what you said about addressing abusive behavior, and how so many people are afraid to stand up and fight against it. I believe that this because it’s been masked as being OK, simply because it’s being delivered by a man who’s been “called” to preach. (Or have been given a pulpit, like David said.)

We (read: women) are not brought up in our society to question men. I spent a lot of years letting male pastors tell me how to live, and it hasn’t done me much good.

If the percentages are anywhere near accurate, there are a shit ton of women who are living in abusive marriages, and sitting in his congregation every week, slowly going crazier and crazier, with no one to call out to that is stronger than the sadistic, mysogynistic God that Driscoll idealizes. The tragedy in all of this is that, while “young men” are given priority and cuts in line, women continue to live in the belief that what Driscoll says, goes.

But Driscoll’s god is a flimsy imitation of the one who honors the woman, the mother, the sister, as much as he wants to [supposedly] bestow all the power and glory upon the heads of young, middle class men.

February 17, 2009 9:45 PM

Shari

E. Thank you, M. I don’t think you wish me ill, and I appreciate you saying so. It just makes me incredibly sad and discouraged that the most common response in the church (in my experience, and in many others’) to those of us who point out areas or patterns of unhealthy/abusive/hurtful behavior, is to place the blame on us for speaking up.

The fact is, Mark Driscoll has harmed a lot of people, and he is delivering hate speech from one of the biggest and most influential pulpits on the west coast. (If you simply go online and listen to his podcasts, you’ll find evidence of this in abundance.) The reality is, a lot of people have gone to Mark Driscoll in exactly the scriptural manner you describe, and it hasn’t helped a bit, because he doesn’t listen, and he just keeps getting nastier. (I know one woman who went with her husband to talk with Mark Driscoll about some of his teachings. When she gently but firmly challenged him on a point, Mark Driscoll refused to speak with her, turned to her husband and said something to the effect of, “If you don’t shut your wife up, I will.” This is typical behavior for him.)

My letter was from two years ago. I believed then that a protest (which I wasn’t organizing, but did support) was the right thing to do because something needed to be done, and the Christians around Mark Driscoll weren’t doing anything to support those who had been hurt, to deal with Driscoll’s behavior, or even to find out more about what was happening and whether action of any kind needed to be taken. My letter was, as I explained at the time, not a personal attack; it was simply an attempt to get people to notice what has been happening at Mars Hill, to look into things more closely, and to hold Mark Driscoll accountable for his words and actions. Why did I think it was the Christian thing to do? Because Jesus was a defender of the harmed, the persecuted, the weak, the maligned, the attacked. Who has been more harmed, persecuted, weakened, maligned, or attacked in the church than women — and especially women who have tried to have a voice?

I honestly don’t care what Mark Driscoll believes, except to the degree that he thinks those beliefs give him the right to mock, disparage, shame, and humiliate people — including, but not limited to, people like me. Ideally, it would be the people around him who would be gently challenging him to be a loving person, and to be his best self. Sadly, I stopped holding my breath for that to happen a long time ago.

Again, I appreciate the clarification. And I just want you to please consider that, when someone stands up to authority — in the church, and elsewhere — it may just be for a good reason. And it is certainly fine to question that person’s position — but I would hope that you would question the other side just as much. As you said, you don’t know me and you don’t know Mark Driscoll. The question then is, why (of the two of us) is he the one who got the benefit of the doubt? I don’t suggest that you answer that question here, or for me. But it is a question that I wish all the people who’ve defended Mark Driscoll, and/or have turned a deaf ear to those of us who are concerned, would ask themselves.

February 18, 2009 9:44 AM

…F. Why can’t we just take a sermon at face value and agree to disagree? Is this Driscoll guy being any more chauvinistic than the apostle Paul? And who cares? Why can’t we just disagree and be independent thinkers? Why do we have to call it abuse and check ourselves into therapy? Maybe because we’re making our pastors out to be gods.

If you think Driscoll is a douche, than stop giving him your money and leave!!!

Self-victimization is a children’s tool. We need to grow up.

February 18, 2009 10:08 AM

Shari

G. P.S. Why can’t we take a sermon at face value and agree to disagree? Spoken like a middle-class privileged white man in a society ruled by middle-class privileged white men who never get made fun of from the pulpit by middle-class privileged white men in power. If you were the one being mocked, shamed, and disparaged by “spiritual authority” on a regular basis — or if you actually cared for a moment about someone who was — you might just feel differently.

February 18, 2009 11:15 AM

H. You’re far more brave than I am on confronting spiritual abuse. I don’t know what I told you about the church I grew up in, but there was a HUGE divide created by our (then) Pastor, Richard Frazier, similar to this Driscoll kerfuffle. My father was one of the first to speak out against Richard Frazier and because of that was alienated for a long time in the church community and even had his life threatened at gunpoint (true story) by one of Frazier’s supporters. God-like? No. Thug-like? Yes.

The long and the short of it was many people (including my family) believed Frazier was spiritually abusing the congregation, which, I think goes without saying, involved a lot of emotional abuse. And as emotional abuse goes, some yearn for it because it is all they know while others want better. (Plato’s allegory of The Cave?) My father is a very calm man and was wanting so much to ignite discussion and not the screaming mess that came about prior to Frazier finally being run out of town. We’re still healing as a spiritual family… I think it’s commendable that Shari speak up about Mars Hill. There’s a lot of abusive leaders in the church that need to be called out.

February 18, 2009 5:34 PM

Shari

…I. …All you did was position chauvinism as biblical and defend people who hurt others and who refuse to acknowledge that pain or change their behavior — yet you were more than happy to rail at me for raising a red flag and to, essentially, call me a childish whiner. You can’t bait people with comments like yours and then shame them for getting pissed off.

For the record, getting angry about people mistreating other people isn’t throwing a tantrum. It’s just being a decent human being.

May 30, 2009

I don’t know that anyone will follow a comment here this late in the game, but I just came upon this…

In abusive systems, or in the minds of those who are threatened by even acknowledging the reality of the abuse and thus the moral responsibility to actually DO something about it, the one who points out the red flag, the one who, like Shari, says, “Hey, the emperor has no clothes,” becomes THE problem, THE enemy, THE issue.

And Shari, you are so right, you, or anyone else who dares to speak out, becomes the target at a carnival (and it is a madhouse– like a carnival’s house of mirrors, that which is reflected back at you, that which comes at you–when you do speak out).

So, for what it’s worth, I have a site about Mars Hill and what I consider to be church/spiritual abuse coming from that system and from Driscoll.

freedom4captives.wordpress.com

I am copying part of Shari’s letter and some of the comments here to my blog, not using the commenter’s names. But since Shari’s letter is public, I am using her name.

For freedom, truth and love!

Freedom

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8092454655191120011&postID=7836966978931762613&page=1

5/30/09

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I am posting this to provide biblical reasoning as to why I believe Driscoll’s views, sermons and treatment of women are oppressive, anti-biblical, and appear to cross over into abuse as well. The following in its entirety is copied by permission from CBE (for more info go to bottom of page) and captures my understanding of Scripture regarding:

Men, Women and Biblical Equality

The Bible teaches the full equality of men and women in Creation

and in Redemption (Gen 1:26-28, 2:23, 5:1-2; I Cor 11:11-12; Gal

3:13, 28, 5:1).


The Bible teaches that God has revealed Himself in the totality of

Scripture, the authoritative Word of God (Matt 5:18; John 10:35; 2

Tim 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21).


We believe that Scripture is to be

interpreted holistically and thematically. We also recognize the

necessity of making a distinction between inspiration and

interpretation: inspiration relates to the divine impulse and control

whereby the whole canonical Scripture is the Word of God;

interpretation relates to the human activity whereby we seek to

apprehend revealed truth in harmony with the totality of Scripture

and under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. To be truly biblical,

Christians must continually examine their faith and practice under

the searchlight of Scripture.


Biblical Truths

Creation

1. The Bible teaches that both man and woman were created in God’s

image, had a direct relationship with God, and shared jointly the

responsibilities of bearing and rearing children and having dominion

over the created order (Gen 1:26-28).

2. The Bible teaches that woman and man were created for full and

equal partnership. The word “helper” (ezer) used to designate woman

in Genesis 2:18 refers to God in most instances of Old Testament usage

(e.g. I Sam 7:12; Ps 121:1-2). Consequently the word conveys no

implication whatsoever of female subordination or inferiority.

3. The Bible teaches that the forming of woman from man

demonstrates the fundamental unity and equality of human beings (Gen

2:21-23). In Genesis 2:18, 20 the word “suitable” (kenegdo) denotes

equality and adequacy.

4. The Bible teaches that man and woman were co-participants in the

Fall: Adam was no less culpable than Eve (Gen 3:6; Rom 5:12-21;

I Cor 15:21-22).

5. The Bible teaches that the rulership of Adam over Eve resulted from

the Fall and was therefore not a part of the original created order.

Genesis 3:16 is a prediction of the effects of the Fall rather than a

prescription of God’s ideal order.

Redemption

6. The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ came to redeem women as well

as men. Through faith in Christ we all become children of God, one in

Christ, and heirs to the blessings of salvation without reference to

racial, social, or gender distinctives (John 1:12-13; Rom 8:14-17;

2 Cor 5:17; Gal 3:26-28).

Community

7. The Bible teaches that at Pentecost the Holy Spirit came on men and

women alike. Without distinction, the Holy Spirit indwells women and

men, and sovereignly distributes gifts without preference as to gender

(Acts 2:1-21; 1 Cor 12:7, 11, 14:31).

8. The Bible teaches that both women and men are called to develop

their spiritual gifts and to use them as stewards of the grace of God (1

Peter 4:10-11). Both men and women are divinely gifted and

empowered to minister to the whole Body of Christ, under His

authority (Acts 1:14, 18:26, 21:9; Rom 16:1-7, 12-13, 15; Phil 4:2-3;

Col 4:15; see also Mark 15:40-41, 16:1-7; Luke 8:1-3; John 20:17-18;

compare also Old Testament examples: Judges 4:4-14, 5:7;

2 Chron 34:22-28; Prov 31:30-31; Micah 6:4).

9. The Bible teaches that, in the New Testament economy, women as

well as men exercise the prophetic, priestly and royal functions (Acts

2:17-18, 21:9; 1 Cor 11:5; 1 Peter 2:9-10; Rev 1:6, 5:10). Therefore,

the few isolated texts that appear to restrict the full redemptive freedom

of women must not be interpreted simplistically and in contradiction to

the rest of Scripture, but their interpretation must take into account their

relation to the broader teaching of Scripture and their total context

(1 Cor 11:2-16, 14:33-36; 1 Tim 2:9-15).

10. The Bible defines the function of leadership as the empowerment of

others for service rather than as the exercise of power over them (Matt

20:25-28, 23:8; Mark 10:42-45; John 13:13-17; Gal 5:13;

1 Peter 5:2-3).

Family

11. The Bible teaches that husbands and wives are heirs together of the

grace of life and that they are bound together in a relationship of mutual

submission and responsibility (1 Cor 7:3-5; Eph 5:21; 1 Peter 3:1-7;

Gen 21:12). The husband’s function as “head” (kephale) is to be

understood as self-giving love and service within this relationship of

mutual submission (Eph 5:21-33; Col 3:19; 1 Peter 3:7).

12. The Bible teaches that both mothers and fathers are to exercise

leadership in the nurture, training, discipline and teaching of their

children (Ex 20:12; Lev 19:3; Deut 6:6-9, 21:18-21, 27:16;

Prov 1:8, 6:20; Eph 6:1-4; Col 3:20; 2 Tim 1:5; see also Luke 2:51).

Application

Community

1. In the church, spiritual gifts of women and men are to be

recognized, developed and used in serving and teaching ministries

at all levels of involvement: as small group leaders, counselors,

facilitators, administrators, ushers, communion servers, and board

members, and in pastoral care, teaching, preaching, and worship

In so doing, the church will honor God as the source of spiritual

gifts. The church will also fulfill God’s mandate of stewardship

without the appalling loss to God’s kingdom that results when half

of the church’s members are excluded from positions of

responsibility.

2. In the church, public recognition is to be given to both women

and men who exercise ministries of service and leadership.

In so doing, the church will model the unity and harmony that

should characterize the community of believers. In a world

fractured by discrimination and segregation, the church will

dissociate itself from worldly or pagan devices designed to make

women feel inferior for being female. It will help prevent their

departure from the church or their rejection of the Christian faith.

Family

3. In the Christian home, husband and wife are to defer to each

other in seeking to fulfill each other’s preferences, desires and

aspirations. Neither spouse is to seek to dominate the other but

each is to act as servant of the other, in humility considering the

other as better than oneself. In case of decisional deadlock they

should seek resolution through biblical methods of conflict

resolution rather than by one spouse imposing a decision upon the

other.

In so doing, husband and wife will help the Christian home stand

against improper use of power and authority by spouses and will

protect the home from wife and child abuse that sometimes

tragically follows a hierarchical interpretation of the husband’s

“headship.”

4. In the Christian home, spouses are to learn to share the

responsibilities of leadership on the basis of gifts, expertise, and

availability, with due regard for the partner most affected by the

decision under consideration.

In so doing, spouses will learn to respect their competencies and

their complementarity. This will prevent one spouse from

becoming the perennial loser, often forced to practice ingratiating

or deceitful manipulation to protect self-esteem. By establishing

their marriage on a partnership basis, the couple will protect it from

joining the tide of dead or broken marriages resulting from marital

inequities.

5. In the Christian home, couples who share a lifestyle

characterized by the freedom they find in Christ will do so without

experiencing feelings of guilt or resorting to hypocrisy. They are

freed to emerge from an unbiblical “traditionalism” and can rejoice

in their mutual accountability in Christ. In so doing, they will

openly express their obedience to Scripture, will model an example

for other couples in quest of freedom in Christ, and will stand

against patterns of domination and inequality sometimes imposed

upon church and family.

We believe that biblical equality as reflected in this

document is true to Scripture.

We stand united in our conviction that the Bible,

in its totality, is the liberating Word that provides

the most effective way for women and men to

exercise the gifts distributed by the Holy Spirit and

thus to serve God.

Gilbert Bilezikian W. Ward Gasque

Stanley N. Gundry Gretchen Gaebelein Hull

Catherine Clark Kroeger Jo Anne Lyon

Roger Nicole

(c) 1989, Christians for Biblical Equality. Permission to

reproduce the statement in its entirety can be obtained from

the national office of CBE.

CHRISTIANS FOR BIBLICAL EQUALITY

122 West Franklin Avenue, Suite 218, Mpls, MN 55404-2451

Phone: (612) 872-6898 Fax: (612) 872-6891

E-mail: cbe@cbeinternational.org

http://www.cbeinternational.org

Endorsed by: Miriam Adeney, Astri T. Anfindsen, Timothy Paul Allen, James Alsdurf,

Phyllis Alsdurf, John E. Anderson, P atricia W. Anderson, Carl E. Armerding, Myron S.

Augsburger, Raymond Bakke, Sandra Bauer, James Beck, Virginia L. Beck, Elizabeth Bell,

Roy D. Bell, David G. Benner, Gordon C. Bennett, Joyce R. Berggren, Char Binkley,

Sandra Bostian, Mark A. Brewer, Bettie Ann Brigham, D. Stuart Briscoe, Kathleen K.

Brogan, James A. Brooks, Beth E. Brown, H. Marie Brown, F. F. Bruce, Cheever C.

Buckbee, David H. Burr, Donald P. Buteyn, Anthony Campolo, Linda Cannell, Daniel R.

Chamberlain, Caroline L. Cherry, Jack M. Chisholm, Gerald Christmas, Rosemary

Christmas, David K. Clark, Shirley Close, Bonnidell Clouse, Robert G. Clouse, David W.

Clowney, Naomi C. Cole, Mark O. Coleman, Jim Conway, Sally Conway, Kaye V. Cook-

Kollars, C. S. Cowles, R. Byron Crozier, Peter H. Davids, Edward R. Dayton, Paul H. De

Vries, Sidney De Waal, J. Jey Deifell, Jr., John R. Dellenback, Mary Jane Dellenback, Gary

W. Demarest, Dolores Dunnett, Walter Dunnett, Charlotte Dyck, James F. Engel, C.

Stephen Evans, Colleen Townsend Evans, Louis Evans, Gabriel Fackre, Gordon D. Fee,

John Fischer, Patrice Fischer, David B. Fletcher, Joan D. Flikkema, David A. Fraser, Nils C.

Friberg, Donn M. Gaebelein, Kevin Giles, Alfred A. Glenn, Barbara R. Glenn, Arthur A.

Goetze, Tita V. Gordovez, Lillian V. Grissen, H. James Groen, Vernon Grounds, Darrell L.

Guder, Lee M. Haines, Robin Haines, Richard C. Halverson, Sandra Hart, Stephen A.

Hayner, Jo Ellen Heil, Betty C. Henderson, Robert T. Henderson, John J. Herzog, Bartlett

L. Hess, I. John Hesselink, Roberta Hestenes, Janet S. Hickman, Marvin D. Hoff, Colleen

Holby, Arthur F. Holmes, Beverly Holt, Carol D. C. Howard, David Allan Hubbard, M.

Gay Hubbard, Anne Huffman, John Huffman, Philip G. Hull, Sanford D. Hull, Richard G.

Hutcheson, Jr., William J. Hybels, Vida S. Icenogle, Dorothy Irvin, Evelyn Jensen, Alan F.

Johnson, David W. Johnson, Robert K. Johnston, Rufus Jones, Kenneth S. Kantzer, Robert

D. Kettering, John F. Kilner, Herbert V. Klem, Richard C. Kroeger, Harold E. Kurtz,

Pauline H. Kurtz, Bruce Larson, Michael R. Leming, William H. Leslie, Arthur H. Lewis,

Walter L. Liefeld, Zondra Lindblade, Helen W. Loeb, Richard N. Longenecker, Richard F.

Lovelace, Deborah Olsoe Lunde, Kenneth H. Maahs, Faith M. Martin, James R. Mason,

Alice P. Mathews, Dolores E. McCabe, Te rry McGonigal, David L. McKenna, Lois

McKinney, William A. Meyer, Hazel M. Michelson, A. Berkeley Mickelsen, Alvera

Mickelsen, Eileen F. Moffett, Samuel H. Moffett, C. Sue Moore, Edward Moore, Graham

Morbey, Mary Leigh Morbey, Elizabeth Morgan, Stephen C. Mott, Richard J. Mouw, Jeana

Nieporte, William M. Nieporte, Alvaro L. Nieves, Arnold T. Olson, Daisy M. Washburn

Osborn, LaDonna Osborn, T. L. Osborn, Grant R. Osborne, Grace Paddon, John Paddon,

Elizabeth L. Patterson, Virginia Patterson, Richard Patterson, Jr., Philip Barton Payne,

Robert W. Pazmino, Janet M. Peifer, William J. Petersen, Richard V. Pierard, Paul E.

Pierson, Carolyn Goodman Plampin, Cornelius Plantinga, Jr., Christiane Posselt, Quah

Cheng Hock, Robert V. Rakestraw, Sara Robertson, Lianne Roembke, Lydia M. Sarandan,

Alvin J. Schmidt, Richard C. Schoenert, David M. Scholer, Jeannette F. Scholer, Robert A.

Seiple, Ronald J. Sider, Lewis B. Smedes, James D. Smith III, Paul R. Smith, P. Paul

Snezek, Jr., Klyne Snodgrass, Howard A. Snyder, Aida B. Spencer, William D. Spencer,

Adele O. Sullivan, W. Nelson Thomson, Ruth A. Tucker, Mary Stewart Van Leeuwen,

Joseph W. Viola, Virginia G. Viola, Emily Walther, George H. Walther, Patricia A. Ward,

Timothy Weber, Van B. Weigel, Bruce Wilson, Earle L. Wilson, H. C. Wilson, Nicholas

Wolterstorff, Linda R. Wright, Walter C. Wright, Jr., Louis H. Zbinden. (9/95)

(c) 1989, Christians for Biblical Equality. Permission to

reproduce the statement in its entirety can be obtained from

the national office of CBE.

CHRISTIANS FOR BIBLICAL EQUALITY

122 West Franklin Avenue, Suite 218, Mpls, MN 55404-2451

Phone: (612) 872-6898 Fax: (612) 872-6891

E-mail: cbe@cbeinternational.org

http://www.cbeinternational.org

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