Freedom 4 Captives is taking a new turn…
I’m in the middle of launching my own business, and so I do not have much time and energy for this. But more importantly, I feel that I’ve been obedient to the Lord in speaking out the truth about that which was presented to me regarding apparent church/spiritual abuse at Mars Hill, mostly at the hands of the lead pastor, Mark Driscoll. I was responsible for the information given to me. I have made that known to you here on this blog. For me to go further would entail my policing Driscoll–which I’m really not interested in doing.
Driscoll will continue to be Driscoll, meaning, he will continue to be the Driscoll who–until I am informed otherwise–appears to be abusing God’s flock and setting up a system over which he can rule as supreme. That is my take. Based on my perceptions of Driscoll’s behaviors, his words and apparent attitudes toward women and people in general, until Driscoll falls on his knees, weeping and repenting before the throne of grace, and until he allows (the biblical) Jesus, our only true healer of our broken hearts, to reach down and do a deep healing within him, he will continue to act out of his own pain, his own suppressed and repressed traumas. I pray for that day! I pray for Mark.
Dan. 12:10 reads, “Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.”
When we are ruling over a church in the spirit of those false shepherds whom God condemned in Ez 34, we are not pleasing God, we are not evidencing Christ nor His Spirit in our lives, we are not leading as Jesus leads and instructs us to lead, but rather we have become like the gentiles, lording it over one another, seating ourselves in “Moses’ seat.” This kind of dictatorship, similar to that which I perceive in Driscoll and in Mars Hill, is flat out condemned by God in Scripture over and over again! My point is that there are many Driscolls in the world as well as many of those who are on the polar opposite of Driscoll’s legalism, preaching liberal heresies– and all of these will continue doing what they’re doing… but those who submit to the Lord and to His Word, living by His Spirit, must continue doing so, following and obeying the Lord in true holiness despite what others are choosing to do.
2 Tim 3:13-14 “But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of…”
I invite any of you who happen upon or who have been tracking this site to please keep me informed if you know of any new important issues or spiritual/church abuse or false teaching at Mars Hill. Make a comment here or anywhere else in this blog, and please cite the source of your information. I’d like to keep this blog up to date so people can be informed, but I no longer feel the call nor the need for me personally to keep track on Mark. This blog, as it stands, is enough I would hope for the wise and wary to do their own research and think twice about committing themselves to what looks to be a very controlling and cult-like church system led by what seems to be a spiritually immature despot (compare Driscoll to 1 Tim 3, and, well, to Jesus!).
Rev 22:11-12 “Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy. Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.”
In Christ and in His Glorious Truth and Love!
FREEDOM!!!
It’s all right, Freedom.
I’m kinda done too.
I want to continue my study on the allegorical side of Song of Solomon without thinking about people who are obsessed with the sexual side of it.
Hearing their version of it really gets in the way of mediatating on certain verse. Their interpretation of those verses as explicit sexual acts leave an impression on the soul that is hard to shake.
God bless on your business venture and all that you put your hand to.
Thanks, Mara. It’s been nice dialoguing with you!
As to the issue of others transforming what is dear to you into something that feels perverse to you, the Lord is a Redeemer; He reclaims that which is stolen from us and gives it to us anew, and oftentimes, even more beautifully and abundant than originally.
May God keep you and shine His face upon you!
Freedom
Best of wished to your new venture. Unfortuantly, the wolves will always be with us. We warn, we pray and it sometimes is overwhelming because so many are enamoured with mere men instead of Christ Jesus, our Savior
Yes… And still, we are called to be “watchmen” on the wall…
The Lord has been directing me to Ez 33:1-8 lately… Paraphrasing, it basically says: If we cease to warn the wicked and he then perishes in his sin, the Lord says that man’s blood is on our head, but if we warn him and he persists in his wickedness, we are innocent, his blood is on his own head.
I know contextually that is written to an OT prophet, and we in the NT era are under grace, saved by Christ’s blood shed on the cross period, not by our works… and yet there is something very serious and heavy in the Ez passage that I don’t think we can nor should ignore. In the NT we are told that “all that was written previously [OT] was written for us.”
So, yes, there will always be the “wolves among us” (I was just reading Matt 24 again this morning), same as with the poor always being among us, and still, we labor on!
Lin, I’ve enjoyed your dialogues here and via email… With a twinkle in my eye and a wink, I would say to you, straight from the mouth of a U2 song, “Don’t let the bastards grind ya down.” AND more importantly, the last couple of chapters of the Bible (heck, the last book!) makes it very clear:
WE WIN! 🙂
FREEDOM!!!
Just dropping in on you, Freedom, because I miss you.
Hope your business venture is doing well.
God bless.
Hi Mara,
I miss you too. O, the glory days of intense discussions on this site! 😉
My private practice is going very well. I LOVE the work, helping to set captives free! (See, it’s really in my blood, I can’t get away from it… nor do I want to).
I’ll email you and send you my website. Hope you are doing well, too!
Freedom!
As a general note:
If you, the reader, or someone you know is struggling with issues having to do with controlling/abusive church leaders, church/spiritual abuse, professional abuse, professional sexual misconduct, etc., getting counseling might be the next step toward freedom and healing.
See:
http://heartshealing.com/
Freedom!
JOHN PIPER ON MARK DRISCOLL … NOTHINGS CHANGED !
PLEASE PRAY THAT FREEDOM SEES THIS SOON–OR SOMEONE CAN TELL HER OF THIS:
PLEASE PRAY FOR NEWLIFE LIVE(she, and I too, have recommended it as a “safe place” for counsel!)–AS OF JAN. 11, 2012 IT IS PROMOTING AND SELLING MARK DRISCOLL’S NEW BOOK (from internet reviews, IN IT HE’S STILL now “RECOMMENDING/ADAMANTLY counseling” the behaviors and attitudes you review in your “#35” POST!) Here’s the program link (though it says “tomorrow” it goes to “today” meaning the Jan 11, 2012 recorded program to play (with book prominently displayed ):
http://newlife.com/pastor-mark-driscoll-on-new-life-live-tomorrow/
Steve Arterburn interviewed him in the first part of the program. “Friendship” was the emphasis that was talked about–so many might be completely blindsided if they do not know of him, or his attitudes on sexuality and women. If I remember correctly, Steve said he had sexual issues himself in the past–so I’m wondering if that ties in somewhere….The other two counselors were Jill Hubbard and Dave Stoop I believe–who said they had not read the book. (If they had, or know of his relational patterns and those of the church, and could not see the unhealthy patterns, then I would be amazed and saddened. )
I wrote a woefully wordy comment to “the staff”, and a separate one for the “comments” on the program–with a few links I had then– for “other viewpoints” and my general concern/caution/pleadings for reevaluation of the Driscoll recommendations. They need your site’s info so badly but I think it would be better coming from you or maybe these last people who have had personal experience! (they might just “blow off” another “concern” from me–or because I haven’t had personal or as much experience like you–or they–have had!) Yet if I don’t see a post here or hear “email” soon, I feel I must share it–I just feel so terribly that this would happen–and yet maybe it is so that Mark and Grace will be connected to them and somehow (and so many others) then actually begin (or continue–I don’t know) healing in a more effective way? (Mylan Yerkovich who’s on the program a lot does attachments-based therapy–and addictions are now more often treated as attachment disorders…) I am SO saddened that the very people and program you and I and so many others have “sent people to” now could actually wound them more—if I find out more I’ll let you know. And PLEASE–everyone who sees this–PRAY for all involved (including Mark and Grace Driscoll and their family, & those others also vicitimized) to have this matter “brought into more of God’s Light” and worked on charitably, respectfully, knowledgebly, and so healingly–like has been your blessed example Freedom!–so we do not “speak/think abusively” to/about those who are caught in the web of abusing others–and then become more of, and add to, that which we say we want transformed.
****also–I checked a few programs after that day and Jan 13th (2012)had a request for the name of the book, so someone supplied it. There was also a comment of concern by someone else, so I was thankful. I did copy and post that wordy comment from the original program day–but again, I think it would be so helpful to have some from people with more knowledge or involvement in some way with Mark and the church’s leadership/teaching. THANK AND GOD BLESS YOU TO ALL WHO ARE SHARING, SUFFERING, PRAYING, STANDING AGAINST AND WORKING TO TRANSFORM THIS WEB OF DISRESPECT and SICKNESS. Pat(ricia)
Pat,
(I’ve included most of this reply to your other recent comment on my post #38).
Arterburn and NLL (New Life Live) have been notified of our concerns.
I, too, hope NLL and Steven Arterburn will do some research regarding MH and Driscoll. I know from much reading and exposure to NLL and the wonderful co-hosts on the program that they are not at all about what Driscoll and MH have appeared to me to be about. As I’ve stated throughout this blog, my take on MH and Driscoll is solely based on reports from survivors of MH, my brief experience of the church, research, reading Driscoll’s book, Vintage Church, and listening to many of Driscoll’s sermons in the past. What I don’t know is if Driscoll has had a heart-change over the past couple of years since I last looked into it… and I have not read his new book on marriage which NLL is apparently promoting.
Pat, my heart, too, is saddened that at this point NLL seems to be promoting Driscoll at all. Saddened and confused. I hope to get more information on this.
But what I do know beyond any doubt is that everything I have ever heard come out of NLL, from Arterburn, Dr. Townsend, Dr. Cloud, Milan Yerkovich, Dr. Sherri Denim, Dr. Jill Hubbard, and Dr. Stoop, and from their books–over the 25 years I’ve been reading them–have all been life giving, woman-honoring, and the most healthy, balanced view of psychologically and spiritually healthy and sane living that I have ever come across… and I read voraciously! I still trust NLL very much. I think Arterburn’s invitation is more indicative of a lack of awareness of Driscoll’s and MH’s history than any corroboration with Driscoll’s and MH’s apparent abusive tendencies…
If Driscoll’s recent book promotes those same harmful attitudes toward women and general controlling/abusive tactics that we’ve seen elsewhere, and if the co-hosts read the book, I trust they will talk to Steve about this. They would be as appalled as we have been. I would also be surprised Steve would endorse Driscoll’s book if it did (unless he gave it only a cursory and brief read), since Arterburn is the author of Every Man’s Battle (about porn addiction and how to break free), as well as a book on spiritual abuse (which I have not yet read).
I, personally, would also still trust NLL’s recommendations for therapists on their referral list. From what I understand they have a pretty thorough screening process… but of course this does not guarantee the skill-level of each therapist nor the fit for any particular person. What I suggest is if one is a MH victim/survivor, one could simply ask what the therapist thinks of MH and Driscoll before proceeding to set that first appointment. It’s unfathomable to me that a therapist who is immersed in Cloud/Townsend materials and Yerkovich’s HWL could ever embrace much of Driscoll’s (at least former, if not current) stance regarding sex, male-female relationships and authority/submission. In fact, Dr. Cloud has recently over the past couple of months on NLL adamantly renounced the kind of sick thinking insecure/controlling “Christian” men spout at their wives, “woman, you have to submit to me because I’m the man!” When/if I locate that exact broadcast date, I’ll post it here.
Grace, Truth, and Freedom!
THANKS FREEDOM! God Bless you again! I just saw your reply–as I mentioned, I too have often recommended NLL (and highly) and have bought, read, and given many of their works–and so my dismay also. (Because, also–if a book is recommended so easily w/o a little background research– BEFORE recommending –just a little internet scan would give an indication of some validity of concern–, then that’s a large concern for me also–does that seem reasonable I hope?). Maybe a lesson learned, but still a concern. I would send some Christian academics’, etc. reviews, but some state “very easily misinterpreted (again, I believe)–wifely submission” as essential Biblical Christianity, while quoting and stating alarm about his sexual behaviors as unhealthy (even–in one– “experienced medical health workers” have commented that Mr. D’s emphasis on some behaviors as being risking injury and health). Prof Denny Burk has a review that is somewhat on this order–and I think(and I think it has those health worker comments–otherwise I’ll send in future. ‘no time now. Here’s link:
http://www.dennyburk.com/my-review-of-mark-driscolls-real-marriage/
Anyway, the Lord only knows what will happen with this–yet it needs addressing. Sincerely, Pat
Thankyou Freedom! ****Yes, the important comments from 2 health workers (concerning serious detrimental health side effects of Mr. Driscoll’s sexual behaviors recommendations) are at the end of the site link I gave. “Anonymous” on Jan 3, 2012, and “retired woman” on Jan 11 2012. (also significant one–“Mary Elizabeth Tyler” Jan 3, 2012-first & 2nd paragraph)
. As I mentioned above, I too, have also recommended NLL–and highly!(and have bought, read, shared, and given their books and materials–so very helpful–and so we pray for protection for all involved–continuing to learn to “winnow” more chaf from the fallenness of creation, while seeing increasingly more of God’s truths (from various “gifts differing” viewpoints, different experiences and from well-researched Christians within many contributing “disciplines”), and then “coming alongside” (not condemning) to discuss helps/concerns with one another in the process. And here’s another review (linked from Denny Burk site) that cites specifics and page nos. from book for fact checking, and then speaks more about concern of “comparison” and unnecessary dissatisfactions as a result of lack of knowledge and misunderstanding of purposes and processes within marital sexual relations. This by “Jeremy Pierre”– (if I remember right–article will tell–he’s minister and pastoral counselor)
http://www.credomag.com/issues/in%20christ%20alone.pdf#page=66
‘hope this lends more specifics (many other worthy reviews/aricles out there also) in a way that can be crosschecked for accuracy in a timely way.
sincerely, pat
I was doing some research on crime in the Puyallup area when I cam across your articles. After reading your articles I thought I might suggest a short eBook I wrote. It was motivated by the element you describe as “The need for control” in religious leaders. Or in any leader for that matter. Of course we all know that true leaders need NO control, for their influence is communicated by their life. Others might be compelled to follow a GOOD leader. However there are those who seek to control their families, their employees and any other circle they are a part of. If you are interested, the short eBook I mentioned is on Amazon.com They have apps for Kindle to view eBooks on any device, i.e. Kindle, iPhone, computers, etc. Abdicating The Throne speaks about relinquishing the position of sovereign controller for the sake of growth and development of others..
Abdicating The Throne
http://amzn.com/B005UF4X1W
Excerpt:
The last thing a pastor would ever want to admit; was how he acted as supreme ruler over his immediate local kingdom, he might frequently refer to as, “My Church”. It may stem from upbringing or just the way he manages his own household. The kind of leader I am talking about, reads 1 Timothy 3:5 and sees himself as commander in chief of the home; and takes on the approach of a military officer commanding the troops. Sitting at the helm he has the final say in all matters. His words might come across like, “Wife and kids, you don’t have to think; just ask me and I will tell you.” However these approaches rarely produce any kind of respect, but rather fear. At the very least, it produces a family who will not think for themselves. They will become overly dependent on others to make their decisions for them. This dominating leader likes it when his followers become totally reliant.